Waterloo Region Connected

(11-13-2019, 04:54 PM)taylortbb Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 03:16 PM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]On the more positive side, we have the KPL and CITS thanks to some of the demolition that went on back in the day.

I think CITS is a great building internally, but for location and external design is it really something to be thankful for? If it built in a fully urban location, on Duke/King/Charles, it'd probably do wonders for downtown vibrancy on event nights. Right now most people see the walk as just a little too far to get dinner somewhere downtown, and just drive in and park at CITS. The building also has terrible street interaction. Not that concert venues tend to be great at street interaction, but I'd say it's much worse than average even within its category.

I think that whole block dates to an era of separation of uses (civic buildings all in one area), and of "X in the park" which has not aged well. I'd much rather have the old houses, and all the civic district buildings somewhere more central downtown with better urban form.

I have to agree. The street presence of the CITS is awful/ non existent. Not entirely surprising for a building built in the 1980's, but The civic centre definitely needs some work in regards to bringing people downtown for a dinner and a show. I hate to use Brampton as an example of good urban planning, but look at the Rose theatre.
[attachment=6542]
Built right downtown with a large urban square in front and a pleasant enough street frontage.

(11-13-2019, 04:13 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 03:16 PM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]I don't recall any Schneider homes on Margaret, but I don't know. 

J M Schneider's mansion was 379 Queen St S, now the head office of Polocorp. If I recall correctly, he previously had a home on Courtland Ave, where he also had his first shop.

Kaufman ... Jacob Kaufman's house was at 621 King St W, now part of the Station Park property. His son, A R Kaufman, had a mansion at 516 Woolwich St in Waterloo, and also a large property at 165 Claremont Ave in Kitchener, although it's not clear whether he actually lived in the house at the latter address.

Claremont was much later (isn't that the "mid-century time warp" one that was featured on a Canadian TV show a few years ago?)..  The mansion next to the Augustine home (ie. between Augustines and the church) was either the Kaufman family or the Breithaupt family, can't remember which.  I think somebody posted the history on this site at some point in the past.   There are a number of Breithaupt family homes in the Queen St N area, iirc.

Yes, Claremont was built in the late 50s, I think. So I don't know whether A R actually lived there.

But I don't think there were any (famous) Schneiders or Kaufmans on Margaret. However, each of the Avenue M and Vive properties originally held a house own by a prominent member of the Breithaupt family.

(11-13-2019, 04:54 PM)taylortbb Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 03:16 PM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]On the more positive side, we have the KPL and CITS thanks to some of the demolition that went on back in the day.

I think CITS is a great building internally, but for location and external design is it really something to be thankful for? If it built in a fully urban location, on Duke/King/Charles, it'd probably do wonders for downtown vibrancy on event nights. Right now most people see the walk as just a little too far to get dinner somewhere downtown, and just drive in and park at CITS. The building also has terrible street interaction. Not that concert venues tend to be great at street interaction, but I'd say it's much worse than average even within its category.

I think that whole block dates to an era of separation of uses (civic buildings all in one area), and of "X in the park" which has not aged well. I'd much rather have the old houses, and all the civic district buildings somewhere more central downtown with better urban form.

Yes, CITS was conceived as an anchor of the Civic District.  At the time it was built, I don't think any other location was considered or would have been seen as appropriate.  Whatever its shortcoings, that it exists at all is almost a miracle, a vastly ambitious project at the time.  I doubt that anything comparable could be built in K-W today.

Not sure about that statement. The region literally just completed building  the lrt. Probably the most ambitious urban amenity built in this country by a city (region) our size. I think there is potentially for us to complete another ambitious cultural project in the not too distant future. (Potential the rumored arts and culture space at the old bus depot). I do think that local philanthropy will have to step up to achieve that though.

I guess you can compare anything, but a tram line and a performing arts centre seem a bit of a stretch.

I hadn't heard about the bus terminal site.  Is there a source?  Coincidentally there's a media report today that nothing is planned for the site for the next two or three years.

(11-14-2019, 12:11 AM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]I guess you can compare anything, but a tram line and a performing arts centre seem a bit of a stretch.

I hadn't heard about the bus terminal site.  Is there a source?  Coincidentally there's a media report today that nothing is planned for the site for the next two or three years.

Nothing is decided yet, at this point it's all ideas. I'm sure arts space has been floated amongst the ideas.

However, if Sudbury can build https://maplacedesarts.ca/en/ then surely we can come up with something better than the KWAG space currently at CITS, even in the current political climate. I'd certainly support the construction of something similar (but larger) on the bus terminal site.

Having nothing but surface parking on the other side of Otto street across from CITS doesn't help either.

Maybe 5 or 6 years ago, it felt like CITS was making an effort to be more engaged with the neighbourhood surrounding it. There was an amazing trapeze type show outside and KOI music festival used their property as well. I also remember during Open Doors there being talk of having more events that would bring people to CITS but not necessarily being concerts or shows. Seems like nothing has materialized though.

(11-14-2019, 07:30 AM)BruceAshe Wrote: [ -> ]Having nothing but surface parking on the other side of Otto street across from CITS doesn't help either.

Not entirely surface parking -- there is small park there, too.

(11-14-2019, 01:00 AM)taylortbb Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-14-2019, 12:11 AM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]I guess you can compare anything, but a tram line and a performing arts centre seem a bit of a stretch.

I hadn't heard about the bus terminal site.  Is there a source?  Coincidentally there's a media report today that nothing is planned for the site for the next two or three years.

Nothing is decided yet, at this point it's all ideas. I'm sure arts space has been floated amongst the ideas.

However, if Sudbury can build https://maplacedesarts.ca/en/ then surely we can come up with something better than the KWAG space currently at CITS, even in the current political climate. I'd certainly support the construction of something similar (but larger) on the bus terminal site.

Yes, KWAG definitely merits an expansion, at least.  I am a supporter (annual donor) of the gallery, but I have never heard about any expansion plans.  At one point, I had hoped the old provincial courthouse might be a future home.

(11-14-2019, 07:30 AM)BruceAshe Wrote: [ -> ]Having nothing but surface parking on the other side of Otto street across from CITS doesn't help either.

Maybe 5 or 6 years ago, it felt like CITS was making an effort to be more engaged with the neighbourhood surrounding it. There was an amazing trapeze type show outside and KOI music festival used their property as well. I also remember during Open Doors there being talk of having more events that would bring people to CITS but not necessarily being concerts or shows. Seems like nothing has materialized though.

I remember that and it was an amazing event.  I thought the hope was to make it an annual thing, but it seems to have just been a one-off,  unfortunately.

(11-13-2019, 01:32 PM)jgsz Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 01:00 PM)Spokes Wrote: [ -> ]I'm shocked (but happy) that this didn't get more of the NIMBY treatment

Well, at one time there were beautiful, elegant, mansions along Margaret and Queen Streets.  IIRC, the Schneider’s and Kaufman’s lived on Margaret Avenue.   Had I been around when the homes were still standing I gladly would have joined the NIMBY folks. Some things are worth preserving.

Oh definitely.  They would have definitely been worth preserving.  But Im just surprised that the added density hasn't sent people running for the hills

(11-14-2019, 02:23 PM)Spokes Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 01:32 PM)jgsz Wrote: [ -> ]Well, at one time there were beautiful, elegant, mansions along Margaret and Queen Streets.  IIRC, the Schneider’s and Kaufman’s lived on Margaret Avenue.   Had I been around when the homes were still standing I gladly would have joined the NIMBY folks. Some things are worth preserving.

Oh definitely.  They would have definitely been worth preserving.  But Im just surprised that the added density hasn't sent people running for the hills

There are already the much-higher towers at Queen/Margaret, the low-rise on Margaret, and townhouses on (I think) Ahrens, so the density is not drastic. And the buildings will, in spite of the height, fit in.

(11-13-2019, 11:02 PM)westwardloo Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that local philanthropy will have to step up to achieve that though.

Absolutely. Years back I worked at two art galleries here and it is surprising how little money they operate on. One of the galleries in our city (I think it is the Clay and Glass Gallery) receives zero dollars in regional or higher tier government funding and is one of the few major galleries in Canada to operate this way. They really struggle. It doesn't help that there is minimal interest in the arts in Waterloo Region. It's nice to contemplate, but I don't see where any funding would come from to build a new cultural space anytime soon. The Museum is going to be expanding into the neighbourhing bank and KWAG just completed some new renovations, which is probably the most we'll see for new cultural spaces for a while.

(11-15-2019, 12:58 PM)ac3r Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 11:02 PM)westwardloo Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that local philanthropy will have to step up to achieve that though.

Absolutely. Years back I worked at two art galleries here and it is surprising how little money they operate on. One of the galleries in our city (I think it is the Clay and Glass Gallery) receives zero dollars in regional or higher tier government funding and is one of the few major galleries in Canada to operate this way. They really struggle. It doesn't help that there is minimal interest in the arts in Waterloo Region. It's nice to contemplate, but I don't see where any funding would come from to build a new cultural space anytime soon. The Museum is going to be expanding into the neighbourhing bank and KWAG just completed some new renovations, which is probably the most we'll see for new cultural spaces for a while.

All it take is one wealthy individual to have an interest in the Arts to get something like this done. Unfortunately I don't know if the region has anyone that fits the bill. Most of the regions wealthiest people are more concerned with university donations. (not that there is anything wrong with this, still nice to see philanthropy)