(09-07-2017, 09:48 AM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]The only viable Canadian locations would be Toronto/GTA or Montreal. Too big for any other of our urban areas, istm. Although if the Province undertook to fast-track the HSR (so to speak!) ...
At first I was wondering why you left out Vancouver, but then I realized that they are currently located only a few hours from there!
The only way I could imagine KW having a chance would be if we had mature counter-peak train traffic from Toronto. Amazon wants access to a large pool of potential employees, and we are not big enough. Amazon is a rare breed, an urban tech mega-company. If they were to choose Toronto, I would expect to see them locate in a downtown skyscraper within the Union catchment.
(09-07-2017, 11:42 AM)Markster Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2017, 09:48 AM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]The only viable Canadian locations would be Toronto/GTA or Montreal. Too big for any other of our urban areas, istm. Although if the Province undertook to fast-track the HSR (so to speak!) ...
At first I was wondering why you left out Vancouver, but then I realized that they are currently located only a few hours from there!
The only way I could imagine KW having a chance would be if we had mature counter-peak train traffic from Toronto. Amazon wants access to a large pool of potential employees, and we are not big enough. Amazon is a rare breed, an urban tech mega-company. If they were to choose Toronto, I would expect to see them locate in a downtown skyscraper within the Union catchment.
In Toronto, I think more likely a Quarry Lands development than an existing downtown skyscraper.
Edit: Nix that, it looks like that train has left the station. But a brownfield development would still be a better fit if an urban location.
(09-07-2017, 11:05 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2017, 10:54 AM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]Seattle location has 20K employees: that's more than double what Blackberry had in Waterloo at the peak. It's quite large for us, and a longshot.
And yet, consider the Schneider's lands, for example. 30-acre infill (with more industrial land nearby if they need to expand) with high density could likely handle quite a large campus with high density. Next to public transit (check), a few minutes from the expressway (check), less than an hour from YYZ (check) and even closer to YKF (check).
It's a long shot but ...
It would be a longshot, but it would be ideal.
What bugs me is the shopping for tax breaks. They should come here because we have the talent and tech environment.
Unlike the sports teams, I don't think Amazon is looking just for government handouts: they want a location that works for them. It'll make a much bigger difference to their bottom line than a tax holiday.
Bezos has political ambitions. It's not going to be in Canada, it will be in a swingable red state; my bet is RTP.
(09-07-2017, 01:28 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]In Toronto, I think more likely a Quarry Lands development than an existing downtown skyscraper.
Who said the skyscraper needed to be
existing?
(09-07-2017, 04:08 PM)Markster Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2017, 01:28 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]In Toronto, I think more likely a Quarry Lands development than an existing downtown skyscraper.
Who said the skyscraper needed to be existing?
Quite true. But getting a new one built has a rather long lead time, even by Waterloo Region standards!
This announcement about the Amazon eastern location is all about pork barrel politics. The location of the new site is about how much money a US/Canadian federal politician can generate to capture the site for their area, as in to subsidize Amazon.
For Amazon this is about how much any government (state/province/feds) and city will give to Amazon to get this development in their location. Also about tax subsidies that Amazon can wring out of areas viaing for their willingness to locate. Additionally, don't forget cities in US are paying half a billion dollars to get or keep an NFL team by building a stadium for uber wealthy team owners.
Let the bidding begin as Bezos rubs his hands in glee.
Canada does not play, nor will it play a part in the big money for jobs game.
(09-07-2017, 11:42 AM)Markster Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2017, 09:48 AM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]The only viable Canadian locations would be Toronto/GTA or Montreal. Too big for any other of our urban areas, istm. Although if the Province undertook to fast-track the HSR (so to speak!) ...
At first I was wondering why you left out Vancouver, but then I realized that they are currently located only a few hours from there!
The only way I could imagine KW having a chance would be if we had mature counter-peak train traffic from Toronto. Amazon wants access to a large pool of potential employees, and we are not big enough. Amazon is a rare breed, an urban tech mega-company. If they were to choose Toronto, I would expect to see them locate in a downtown skyscraper within the Union catchment.
Re Vancouver, I was thinking that the cost of housing and the high tech labour shortage there would hinder their prospects. It would seem odd to have two "headquarters" so close together, but it's not clear to me why they want two headquarters at all.
Amazon openly solicits for kickbacks and cities champ at the bit...
(09-07-2017, 09:18 PM)DHLawrence Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like Vancouver has expressed interest anyway - along with Halifax, Calgary, Ottawa, and TO.
Other than Toronto, none of those are much closer to the 1M people mark (or labour market size) that Amazon suggested than Waterloo Region.
In any case, if I were running a city that's interested, I would put together an attractive package but without multi-billion-dollar incentives. Either Amazon would be interested in our city primary for its benefits (location, site availability, transportation, tech workforce -- and far lower costs than Seattle), or not. In the latter case, government largesse to corporations just doesn't make sense, and we should not propose such.
Calgary and Ottawa-Gatineau are both around 1.2M. That's a lot more people than Waterloo Region's 500,000.
The
Corridor would appeal to Amazon. And the Waterloo Region end of the Corridor has more affordable housing than Toronto so I wouldn't rule out this area too quickly.
kps: What is RTP? Raleigh Technology Park?
We don't have the air or rail connections that would be needed.
I have my doubts that an office for 50,000 is truly needed. The current HQ only has about 40,000(?) and 350,000(?) worldwide employees and they want to add 50,000 essentially upper level positions. That's a lot of management types to add unless you are adding a proportionate number of lower level positions elsewhere.
This is a ploy to make the opportunity look better than it is to maximize the government handouts. Frequently these corporate promises of jobs are over-promised and under-delivered. It is probably closer 10% of that estimate (5,000).
I second (or maybe third) that The Toronto-Waterloo Corridor does not have the rail connections needed to be considered a cohesive region. With proper train service, it really could, but transit times from Waterloo to Toronto are too long- the vast majority of people would not consider a two-hour each-way commute even part of the week, so you can't argue (yet) that a business locating in Waterloo can tap into Toronto's labour pool, or vice versa.
A proper pitch for something like this would include a plan to get fast all-day two-way Go service, maybe even with express service from Kitchener to Toronto, established within a reasonable time frame.