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Full Version: ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit
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I would argue the idea of a 401 park and ride for visitors is a fantasy in our city. No person is driving all the way from Toronto is going to park to avoid Kitchener parking and traffic. The only reason people do that in Toronto is parking is expensive and driving is bad and I think we are more likely to convince Preston to embrace the LRT than we are to make driving and parking expensive or difficult downtown.
(07-08-2017, 07:09 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]I would argue the idea of a 401 park and ride for visitors is a fantasy in our city.  No person is driving all the way from Toronto is going to park to avoid Kitchener parking and traffic.   The only reason people do that in Toronto is parking is expensive and driving is bad and I think we are more likely to convince Preston to embrace the LRT than we are to make driving and parking expensive or difficult downtown.

I assumed he meant people taking the bus to K-W.  You are correct that people driving into town would not use such an amenity.
(07-08-2017, 08:36 AM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-08-2017, 07:09 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]I would argue the idea of a 401 park and ride for visitors is a fantasy in our city.  No person is driving all the way from Toronto is going to park to avoid Kitchener parking and traffic.   The only reason people do that in Toronto is parking is expensive and driving is bad and I think we are more likely to convince Preston to embrace the LRT than we are to make driving and parking expensive or difficult downtown.

I assumed he meant people taking the bus to K-W.  You are correct that people driving into town would not use such an amenity.

I think there is a lot to be said for the idea of a bus terminal at Sportsworld, with the LRT extending to there. Then a London-to-Toronto bus, for example, could pop off the 401, up to Sportsworld, and back on to the 401 quickly, and people could take the LRT into K/W. Or iXpress down into Cambridge.
This reminds me of what happened in Peel Region - Brampton did not want the Hurontario LRT into their downtown, so it will end at a a bus terminal at the edge of their domain.
Indeed. If you start rerouting the LRT through industrial areas only, then there is little benefit as compared to an iXpress bus -- which would potentially even be faster.

I like the Sportsworld option, with bus connections to Toronto, Pearson (!) and London, plus local GRT bus routes fanning out to the three towns that are Cambridge.

Use the money saved to eliminate some of the GO/VIA level crossings to improve the rail traffic speeds.
@panamaniac. He did use the word *drive*

In any case I think the bus is just as effective for that use case. LRTs benefits won't be realized at a park and ride.

I'm still sad about Brampton lol.
I can think of two specific use cases for people using an ION park and ride at Sportsworld: First, those headed to the GTA from Waterloo Region by bus. Second, regular commuters from Cambridge who either pay for parking in the Downtowns or large institutions on the line. If you're driving all the way from Toronto you're probably driving directly to your destination at that point. This could be further sweetened by employers who offer discounted passes or parking cash-out. You're right that traffic congestion in the downtown isn't there yet, but give it 10 years. It's a carrot-stick thing, governments typically do better with the carrot.

Main point though is that ending the line at a Transit Hub by the 401 isn't the worst option for phase 2 if Cambridge can't make up their mind.
Well said!
Can't imagine why people don't think Cambridge is an equal part of the region...

There's no way this would be the response to people in east Toronto not wanting their homes to be on top of the relief subway. "Well, they can't decide which street they want it to be on, so we're not gonna bother building it. They can slum it on the bus." Really?

Seems to me Cambridge residents aren't the only ones responsible for the two solitudes not getting together.
(07-08-2017, 11:29 PM)DHLawrence Wrote: [ -> ]Can't imagine why people don't think Cambridge is an equal part of the region...

If the argument for ION phase 2 is a "fairness for Cambridge" argument, then Cambridge complaining about the messy reality of useful LRT works against that. I'd much rather there be an argument on the merits for extending ION to Cambridge. 

Right now the current transit ridership is much lower than the K-W section, though there's substantial development potential along Hespeler Road and some in Galt. However I don't believe the City of Cambridge has expressed much interest in such intensification and they're more interested in redirecting this line to Maple Grove to serve sprawling new industrial areas.

Cambridge wants fairness but seems ambivalent about the actual project. It would cost at least as much as Phase 1 to build. What is the case for this extension, and where is Cambridge in making that case?
(07-08-2017, 11:29 PM)DHLawrence Wrote: [ -> ]"Well, they can't decide which street they want it to be on, so we're not gonna bother building it. They can slum it on the bus." Really?

I don't think anyone here was suggesting that. At least I hope not.

I do think though that building the LRT on some impractical route that is not going to benefit the maximise number of Cambridge citizens and thus ridership just for the sake of building it so no one feels left out is rather silly.
I think any sensible person wants to see Cambridge with LRT. I want to see the urban areas of the region as accessible to LRT as is possible, and to not include Cambridge makes no sense.
But Cambridge city council has a role to play here too in coming up with the best route that will make LRT beneficial to as many people as possible. Surely that is one of the chief goals of LRT is it not?
(07-09-2017, 01:26 AM)Elmira Guy Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-08-2017, 11:29 PM)DHLawrence Wrote: [ -> ]"Well, they can't decide which street they want it to be on, so we're not gonna bother building it. They can slum it on the bus." Really?

I don't think anyone here was suggesting that. At least I hope not.

I do think though that building the LRT on some impractical route that is not going to benefit the maximise number of Cambridge citizens and thus ridership just for the sake of building it so no one feels left out is rather silly.
I think any sensible person wants to see Cambridge with LRT. I want to see the urban areas of the region as accessible to LRT as is possible, and to not include Cambridge makes no sense.
But Cambridge city council has a role to play here too in coming up with the best route that will make LRT beneficial to as many people as possible. Surely that is one of the chief goals of LRT is it not?

Well said! Cambridge isn’t Scarborough, and Ken Seiling and our council are way more sensible than John Tory and Toronto council. We should build it, but Cambridge has to be reasonable in working through the alternative routes. If they won’t accept or suggest a feasible route, then we should hold off building it until they do so. Or just build it as far as Sportsworld because that part seems to be mostly independent of what happens further south.
(07-09-2017, 01:26 AM)Elmira Guy Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-08-2017, 11:29 PM)DHLawrence Wrote: [ -> ]"Well, they can't decide which street they want it to be on, so we're not gonna bother building it. They can slum it on the bus." Really?

I don't think anyone here was suggesting that. At least I hope not.
There are at least five posts suggesting that on this page alone.
Last time I checked, the Region had suggested two routes into town; only one of those has faced opposition so far. If the Region's fine with it going along Maple Grove and nobody objects here, that's pretty much it. There's no further need to "come up with the best route", is there? I don't think it would be the best route, but it's already an option, and it gets the thing built.
(07-09-2017, 06:50 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: [ -> ]Well said! Cambridge isn’t Scarborough, and Ken Seiling and our council are way more sensible than John Tory and Toronto council.

Except the reason everyone gives to combat NIMBYism is "We're not small towns anymore". Wanting to be a big city means not taking your ball and going home at the first opposition.
(07-08-2017, 11:29 PM)DHLawrence Wrote: [ -> ]Seems to me Cambridge residents aren't the only ones responsible for the two solitudes not getting together.

I sincerely appreciate that you see it as "two" because I cannot think of another time I heard or read where a Cambridge resident acknowledged that Cambridge is responsible for some measure of blame as well.