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+--- Thread: 30-40 Margaret Ave | 6 fl | Planned (/showthread.php?tid=220)
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - ac3r - 09-12-2020
For those without a record subscription.
Looks like they cancelled it due to the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic. What a shame, that area really needed something. I'm sure in the future someone else will gladly build there, it's in such a good location.
Edit: Wow, I had no idea they were marketing these to artists. From the article:
- The development was unusual in that the project was marketed for its ties to local arts and culture, and was “unprecedented” in that the developer had partnered with at least three major arts organizations — the Kitchener-Waterloo Symphony, the Kitchener Waterloo Art Gallery and the Kitchener Public Library — to ensure the project was linked with culture.
- “Activa wanted to say from the beginning that arts and culture was a big deal for this development,” said Andrew Bennett, executive director of the symphony. The project’s marketing prominently played up the fact that the units were an easy walk to all three arts facilities. One sales event featured a string quartet, and tickets to arts events were offered to those who bought units.
- The arrangement was also beneficial for the arts groups, Bennett said, since the condos were potentially bringing new customers for the arts organizations.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - panamaniac - 09-12-2020
Marketting to arts patrons, not artists. It would be interesting to know more about the impact of covid. Were pre-buyers trying to get out of their purchases? Were sales not as good as had been suggested? Was financing pulled? Why not just "ride it out" to see if conditions improve next year?
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - Momo26 - 09-12-2020
Has to do more with the developers than buyers. The brokerage was boasting how they were 70%+ sold (Or some such figure). Last time I checked those are binding contracts. They were going to get paid by the purchasers.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - panamaniac - 09-12-2020
Which leaves things a bit mysterious. If the 70% were accurate, is that not the figure than usually secures financing, or have the lenders become more conservative? Or has the developer concluded that covid has made condos an undesireable purchase? I have no idea of the circumstances, but I found the report not very helpful in understanding the project failure.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - ac3r - 09-12-2020
I just hope they make some sort of art friendly area near the galleries...we need some sort of centralized cultural area in the city. CITS and KWAG are right there. City hall always has an exhibit going on in the rotunda, and the basement floor of the Central Library has an art gallery. All that empty land on Margaret Ave would have been perfect, assuming the cost to live there was not astronomical.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - tomh009 - 09-12-2020
(09-12-2020, 09:56 AM)panamaniac Wrote: Which leaves things a bit mysterious. If the 70% were accurate, is that not the figure than usually secures financing, or have the lenders become more conservative? Or has the developer concluded that covid has made condos an undesireable purchase? I have no idea of the circumstances, but I found the report not very helpful in understanding the project failure.
It can secure a construction mortgage -- but that might only cover 60% or 70% of the construction cost.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - Momo26 - 09-13-2020
Well it is located in that arts corner of Kitchener for sure. I say do something grand - integrating arts and culture and a general focal point - at the (old) Charles street bus terminal.
That being said I too would like to see this plot have something great. Like an award winning building!
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - Spokes - 09-14-2020
I wonder if Activa will just sit on it and try again with a new name in a year or so
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - REnerd - 09-14-2020
(09-14-2020, 12:31 PM)Spokes Wrote: I wonder if Activa will just sit on it and try again with a new name in a year or so
I suspect this has nothing to do with COVID and more about the project - either underpriced the units and they think they can relaunch for higher prices OR the construction numbers are way off what they expected and the project wont work.
This is typical in larger markets. I think we haven't seen much of this in KW as-yet.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - panamaniac - 09-14-2020
(09-12-2020, 11:18 AM)ac3r Wrote: I just hope they make some sort of art friendly area near the galleries...we need some sort of centralized cultural area in the city. CITS and KWAG are right there. City hall always has an exhibit going on in the rotunda, and the basement floor of the Central Library has an art gallery. All that empty land on Margaret Ave would have been perfect, assuming the cost to live there was not astronomical.
(09-14-2020, 02:51 PM)REnerd Wrote:It has happened in Ottawa, including one company that converted three already under construction projects from condo to rental. At least the pre-buyers have been spared that in this case.(09-14-2020, 12:31 PM)Spokes Wrote: I wonder if Activa will just sit on it and try again with a new name in a year or so
I suspect this has nothing to do with COVID and more about the project - either underpriced the units and they think they can relaunch for higher prices OR the construction numbers are way off what they expected and the project wont work.
This is typical in larger markets. I think we haven't seen much of this in KW as-yet.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - jgsz - 09-14-2020
If a developer comes forward to build Avenue M they should buy 64 Margaret from Vive Developments. Sorry, but I have no faith that Vive will build anything big. Maybe they should stick to renovations.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - tomh009 - 09-14-2020
(09-14-2020, 06:59 PM)jgsz Wrote: If a developer comes forward to build Avenue M they should buy 64 Margaret from Vive Developments. Sorry, but I have no faith that Vive will build anything big. Maybe they should stick to renovations.
What counts as big? They are doing seven floors at Market Flats and 10 floors at 242-262 Queen St S. OTIS is also seven floors.
And the Vive proposal for 64 Margaret is the same six floors as Avenue M.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - Spokes - 09-18-2020
(09-14-2020, 04:47 PM)panamaniac Wrote:(09-12-2020, 11:18 AM)ac3r Wrote: I just hope they make some sort of art friendly area near the galleries...we need some sort of centralized cultural area in the city. CITS and KWAG are right there. City hall always has an exhibit going on in the rotunda, and the basement floor of the Central Library has an art gallery. All that empty land on Margaret Ave would have been perfect, assuming the cost to live there was not astronomical.
(09-14-2020, 02:51 PM)REnerd Wrote: I suspect this has nothing to do with COVID and more about the project - either underpriced the units and they think they can relaunch for higher prices OR the construction numbers are way off what they expected and the project wont work.It has happened in Ottawa, including one company that converted three already under construction projects from condo to rental. At least the pre-buyers have been spared that in this case.
This is typical in larger markets. I think we haven't seen much of this in KW as-yet.
Wow, how can they justify doing this? Thats crazy
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - panamaniac - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 11:30 AM)Spokes Wrote:(09-14-2020, 04:47 PM)panamaniac Wrote: It has happened in Ottawa, including one company that converted three already under construction projects from condo to rental. At least the pre-buyers have been spared that in this case.
Wow, how can they justify doing this? Thats crazy
Rule #1 - the developer never loses.
RE: Avenue M | 6 + 6 fl | Cancelled - danbrotherston - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 11:35 AM)panamaniac Wrote:(09-18-2020, 11:30 AM)Spokes Wrote: Wow, how can they justify doing this? Thats crazy
Rule #1 - the developer never loses.
This rule can be generalized...those who can afford the more expensive lawyers never lose.
It's just one more example of where people have the delusion of free equal bargaining position but don't, for example, when I want to buy a house, I can draft a contract which might put restrictions on the types of circumstances that would allow a seller to back out of their purchase, and penalties if they do so.
But the last time I bought a property it was from an individual seller, we both had our realtors, and our own lawyers, and were negotiating on more or less the same level.
I'm guessing there aren't really such provisions in the contract when you're dealing with a developer, nor do you likely have the negotiation power to put such provisions in. It's one of the reasons there are pieces of legislation like new home warranty.
One of the sneakiest things corporatism has done is pretend that an individual person can negotiate with a hundred billion dollar company on an equal basis .