(03-16-2026, 11:10 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I'll be blunt, and this is an unpopular opinion. I think new large park and ride facilities on greenfield space is a bad idea.

And I realize that I'm not going to convince anyone here, nor am I even going to be seen at anyone at GO/Metrolinx so this is a conversation for conversations sake, but the fact is, building a large park and ride facility is an investment that benefits a relatively small number of people (say 500-1000, who could possibly would use even a very large parking lot), at the cost of long term maintenance of the status quo--a transit station that will remain permanently and completely inaccessible by all the development that absolutely will happen around it. It is another missed opportunity to change the strategy of development in the province, and a significant loss of housing opportunity in a province with a desperate shortage of housing.

But I fully expect that a P&R facility will be built somewhere around the same time the 7 expressway is also completed, because nothing is changing in the province.

(03-17-2026, 08:18 AM)westwardloo Wrote:

(03-16-2026, 11:10 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I'll be blunt, and this is an unpopular opinion. I think new large park and ride facilities on greenfield space is a bad idea.

And I realize that I'm not going to convince anyone here, nor am I even going to be seen at anyone at GO/Metrolinx so this is a conversation for conversations sake, but the fact is, building a large park and ride facility is an investment that benefits a relatively small number of people (say 500-1000, who could possibly would use even a very large parking lot), at the cost of long term maintenance of the status quo--a transit station that will remain permanently and completely inaccessible by all the development that absolutely will happen around it. It is another missed opportunity to change the strategy of development in the province, and a significant loss of housing opportunity in a province with a desperate shortage of housing.

But I fully expect that a P&R facility will be built somewhere around the same time the 7 expressway is also completed, because nothing is changing in the province.

Ok, I guess myself and many others will just drive to Toronto then. Personally I live in the country so bus is not an option, but If I lived in the edge of town with bus connection I would not and I suspect a lot of others would not take the bus 30-45 mins to get on a train. I would however take the my car 10-15 mins to then jump on the train.   I just don't understand your all or nothing Bike/walk/take transit mentality. I know you live abroad in Europe (Netherlands) with a much better transit system then us. But they still build park and Ride with parking garages. They still have HWY's connecting small cities. The point is to invest is all aspects of the transportation system. Do I think we can do better on the Bike/ transportation infrastructure, absolutely, but that does not mean we don't invest in car infrastructure as well.

(03-17-2026, 04:42 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think commuter rail is a uniquely North American phenomenon. No other country (or at least none I can think of) builds a transit system that is designed to cater only to commute hour drivers. So yes, if the only goal is to do that, then a P&R makes sense. But I don't think that should be the goal here.

As for what other countries do, some do have P&Rs, but they're generally smaller, and as suggested by ijmorlan cover at most half the station area.

For me, the problem with the Breslau station is that this is station that will be surrounded by a moat of parking, and exist for no other reason. Worse, development will almost certainly follow the station and grow around it, but with no plan and a shitty station area, this development will be unplanned, and car focused.

There is an opportunity instead to build a transit focused new complete community around it. How often do we open a new rail transit station? This is precisely what was done in the neighbourhood I live in, they opened a new station, and built a whole community around it.

But there are two big obstacles here. First, nobody has even imagined that you can build a transit community like this in North America. But bigger than that, you'd have to accept that people in KW that WANT to go to Toronto would have a choice: live in the transit focused area, or drive instead. The idea that we should give up on getting people living in a car dependent suburban wasteland sounds wrong, but I think it makes sense. People who live in a car dependent area aren't going to make extensive use of transit. We should instead by providing the opportunity for people to live a car light lifestyle by providing a good experience in such a place.

Like many things, this is about a deeper concept of freedom and choice. E.g., not "I expect to drive wherever I want, even a transit station" the choice should be "what kind of lifestyle do I want to have"

(03-17-2026, 10:58 AM)plam Wrote:

(03-17-2026, 04:42 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think commuter rail is a uniquely North American phenomenon. No other country (or at least none I can think of) builds a transit system that is designed to cater only to commute hour drivers. So yes, if the only goal is to do that, then a P&R makes sense. But I don't think that should be the goal here.

As for what other countries do, some do have P&Rs, but they're generally smaller, and as suggested by ijmorlan cover at most half the station area.

For me, the problem with the Breslau station is that this is station that will be surrounded by a moat of parking, and exist for no other reason. Worse, development will almost certainly follow the station and grow around it, but with no plan and a shitty station area, this development will be unplanned, and car focused.

There is an opportunity instead to build a transit focused new complete community around it. How often do we open a new rail transit station? This is precisely what was done in the neighbourhood I live in, they opened a new station, and built a whole community around it.

But there are two big obstacles here. First, nobody has even imagined that you can build a transit community like this in North America. But bigger than that, you'd have to accept that people in KW that WANT to go to Toronto would have a choice: live in the transit focused area, or drive instead. The idea that we should give up on getting people living in a car dependent suburban wasteland sounds wrong, but I think it makes sense. People who live in a car dependent area aren't going to make extensive use of transit. We should instead by providing the opportunity for people to live a car light lifestyle by providing a good experience in such a place.

Like many things, this is about a deeper concept of freedom and choice. E.g., not "I expect to drive wherever I want, even a transit station" the choice should be "what kind of lifestyle do I want to have"

Overall I agree that park and ride is very status quo focussed and not really actually an efficient use of money---but what is, when it comes to cars?

Commuter rail makes me think of Paris's RER. And indeed, they have "parcs relais" which seem to be park and ride, though only on the furthest-out stations: https://www.transilien.com/fr/page-deplacements/parcs-relais

Wellington, NZ does have commuter rail, as does Auckland. Wellington's rail stations come with parking lots.

It's my impression that some places are trying to build in a downtown after the fact like the Vaughan Metropolitan Centre. I really don't want to think about Vaughan though.

But when we have greenfield here we all too often build fiascoes like the Boardwalk. Ugh.

(03-17-2026, 08:18 AM)westwardloo Wrote: Ok, I guess myself and many others will just drive to Toronto then. Personally I live in the country so bus is not an option, but If I lived in the edge of town with bus connection I would not and I suspect a lot of others would not take the bus 30-45 mins to get on a train. I would however take the my car 10-15 mins to then jump on the train. 

(03-18-2026, 08:13 PM)tomh009 Wrote:

(03-17-2026, 08:18 AM)westwardloo Wrote: Ok, I guess myself and many others will just drive to Toronto then. Personally I live in the country so bus is not an option, but If I lived in the edge of town with bus connection I would not and I suspect a lot of others would not take the bus 30-45 mins to get on a train. I would however take the my car 10-15 mins to then jump on the train. 

But it's not automatically 10-15 minutes.  SW Kitchener to Breslau is 20 minutes (without traffic). St Jacobs is 20 minutes. Laurelwood is 25 minutes. Baden is 25 minutes. Add 5-10 minutes for traffic, or more, and now you are in the 30-40 minute range.

Do you see that as a reasonable time to drive to a GO station?

(03-19-2026, 08:33 AM)westwardloo Wrote:

(03-18-2026, 08:13 PM)tomh009 Wrote: But it's not automatically 10-15 minutes.  SW Kitchener to Breslau is 20 minutes (without traffic). St Jacobs is 20 minutes. Laurelwood is 25 minutes. Baden is 25 minutes. Add 5-10 minutes for traffic, or more, and now you are in the 30-40 minute range.

Do you see that as a reasonable time to drive to a GO station?

I know people that drive 60 minutes to the burlington GO station on Saturdays in the summer to see Blue jays games all the time. 20 mins to a GO station is nothing. when I lived in Toronto I walked 15 mins to get to a subway stop. 

Personally I would love to see GO expanded into west kitchener as well. It would be a fairly good location for transit, walkers, bikers and cars to access a station near the Boardwalk. It could even spur a future redevelopment of that crapshoot of a box store plaza. 

Just because Breslau would be a Park & Ride style station doesn't mean the Region or Township couldn't plan to build a mixed use space around the station that provides retail, commercial space and housing. I think the location picked for the Breslau GO also has the potential to have trails built to it from all the neighbourhoods in Breslau. So hopefully those residents would take bikes/ walk.

• [b]NEW![/b] 08:49 train departing Union Station to Kitchener GO, arriving at 10:26.
  
• [b]NEW![/b] 15:43 train departing Kitchener GO to Union Station, arriving at 17:17.
  
• These trains will not stop at Acton, Georgetown, Malton, Etobicoke North, Weston or Mount Dennis GO stations.
  

Quote:On weekdays, the train will travel from Stratford to Toronto's Union Station in the mornings, leaving Stratford just after 6 a.m. and arriving in Toronto before 9 a.m. The return trip in the evenings would leave Toronto around 5 p.m. and arrive in Stratford at about 7:30 p.m..

On weekends, the train will start in Toronto and bring people to Stratford in the mornings, then return to Toronto later in the day.

(04-17-2026, 12:04 PM)nms Wrote: Stratford to get daily GO train service starting in July (CBC)

Quote:On weekdays, the train will travel from Stratford to Toronto's Union Station in the mornings, leaving Stratford just after 6 a.m. and arriving in Toronto before 9 a.m. The return trip in the evenings would leave Toronto around 5 p.m. and arrive in Stratford at about 7:30 p.m..

On weekends, the train will start in Toronto and bring people to Stratford in the mornings, then return to Toronto later in the day.