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+--- Thread: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed (/showthread.php?tid=1773)
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - KaiserWilhelmsBust - 05-15-2023
(05-15-2023, 07:49 AM)Bjays93 Wrote:(05-12-2023, 04:25 PM)taylortbb Wrote: I can't figure out who wants 75,000 sq ft of institutional space, I can't imagine they're building it on spec.Gotta agree with the elevator concerns here. Bring on the height but 3 per building is not enough. You need a minimum of 5 if not 6 per building at this height.
Also, looking through the OPA/ZBA packages I'm really wondering about the number of elevators. It shows 3 per tower, which means about 200 units per elevator. 100 units per elevator seems like the standard for other buildings, so I'm wondering if they're fast elevators or if everyone is going to be waiting a long time.
Really makes it stink of "lets rezone this to a super high density and then flip the land". Institutional demand could be made up to help with the rezoning. This groups done this on another project recently
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - KaiserWilhelmsBust - 05-15-2023
(05-15-2023, 10:22 AM)KaiserWilhelmsBust Wrote:(05-15-2023, 07:49 AM)Bjays93 Wrote: Gotta agree with the elevator concerns here. Bring on the height but 3 per building is not enough. You need a minimum of 5 if not 6 per building at this height.
Really makes it stink of "lets rezone this to a super high density and then flip the land". Institutional demand could be made up to help with the rezoning. This groups done this on another project recently
Adding to this, the tower is also missing lots of critical things like garbage chute rooms, mechanical and electrical chases, and make up air. You'd typically want this in immediately if you're actually planning on building since they can have big impacts on revenue assumptions
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - tomh009 - 05-15-2023
(05-15-2023, 10:22 AM)KaiserWilhelmsBust Wrote: Really makes it stink of "lets rezone this to a super high density and then flip the land". Institutional demand could be made up to help with the rezoning. This groups done this on another project recently
Which project did Vive flip? It doesn't seem to be their business model. (They did get out of OTIS, but that makes sense as it's a condo project, not a rental.)
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - Bjays93 - 05-15-2023
(05-15-2023, 10:30 AM)tomh009 Wrote:Yea I don’t get the sense that Vive is in the business of creating proposals that are purely zoning exercises. That said, there is definitely some stuff missing from the initial proposal here.(05-15-2023, 10:22 AM)KaiserWilhelmsBust Wrote: Really makes it stink of "lets rezone this to a super high density and then flip the land". Institutional demand could be made up to help with the rezoning. This groups done this on another project recently
Which project did Vive flip? It doesn't seem to be their business model. (They did get out of OTIS, but that makes sense as it's a condo project, not a rental.)
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - DK519 - 05-15-2023
(05-15-2023, 10:30 AM)tomh009 Wrote:(05-15-2023, 10:22 AM)KaiserWilhelmsBust Wrote: Really makes it stink of "lets rezone this to a super high density and then flip the land". Institutional demand could be made up to help with the rezoning. This groups done this on another project recently
Which project did Vive flip? It doesn't seem to be their business model. (They did get out of OTIS, but that makes sense as it's a condo project, not a rental.)
Don't they own the lot at King and Stirling that's up for sale now?
Actually looks like the listing is inactive now but the cached version is here.
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - KaiserWilhelmsBust - 05-15-2023
(05-15-2023, 10:30 AM)tomh009 Wrote:(05-15-2023, 10:22 AM)KaiserWilhelmsBust Wrote: Really makes it stink of "lets rezone this to a super high density and then flip the land". Institutional demand could be made up to help with the rezoning. This groups done this on another project recently
Which project did Vive flip? It doesn't seem to be their business model. (They did get out of OTIS, but that makes sense as it's a condo project, not a rental.)
They generally don't get listed publicly, but will be directly marketed by some of the commercial brokers. Last one was flipped was on King E - maybe the schwaben club property? Lots of examples of them doing this though, but generally done pretty early on. Civic66 and TheScott were both flips by them
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - Lens - 05-15-2023
They absolutely do this. A lot of developers do for various reasons.
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - tomh009 - 05-15-2023
(05-15-2023, 02:45 PM)KaiserWilhelmsBust Wrote:(05-15-2023, 10:30 AM)tomh009 Wrote: Which project did Vive flip? It doesn't seem to be their business model. (They did get out of OTIS, but that makes sense as it's a condo project, not a rental.)
They generally don't get listed publicly, but will be directly marketed by some of the commercial brokers. Last one was flipped was on King E - maybe the schwaben club property? Lots of examples of them doing this though, but generally done pretty early on. Civic66 and TheScott were both flips by them
Schwaben Club (the source of the recent complaints in the homelessness threads) is still Vive. Didn't know The Scott and Civic 66 were Vive properties originally, though.
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - KaiserWilhelmsBust - 05-15-2023
(05-15-2023, 05:25 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(05-15-2023, 02:45 PM)KaiserWilhelmsBust Wrote: They generally don't get listed publicly, but will be directly marketed by some of the commercial brokers. Last one was flipped was on King E - maybe the schwaben club property? Lots of examples of them doing this though, but generally done pretty early on. Civic66 and TheScott were both flips by them
Schwaben Club (the source of the recent complaints in the homelessness threads) is still Vive. Didn't know The Scott and Civic 66 were Vive properties originally, though.
Double checked and it is the Schwaben, 1668 king. Maybe not sold yet but being actively marketed by CBRE
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - ac3r - 05-16-2023
I thought the one at the Schwaben Club was approved just before winter and the opening of the shelter?
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - Lebronj23 - 08-22-2023
New documents have been submitted, the only change I can see is the new balcony pattern as seen below
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - Square - 02-20-2024
Looks like we know when Grand River Rocks are moving, and does not look like this will be starting anytime soon!
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26456842/50-borden-avenue-s-kitchener
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - ac3r - 02-20-2024
I'll be surprised if it ever gets started. I have a strong feeling it will just be a rezone and property flip. Vive has never attempted a project this large before and they have like 10 other projects in the pipeline with 1 or 2 of them under construction right now. It seems unusual to start planning for a pair of 50+ floor skyscrapers when they have so much other work to finish. But if the goal is to just try and sell the property to another developer, then it makes more sense. While I'd welcome some skyscrapers going up around here, I'd rather see them actually complete the numerous projects they proposed years ago, some of which have already been approved albeit with any actual intent to start them anytime soon.
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - nms - 02-21-2024
So if this gets approved, but then Vive sits on it, does Kitchener get penalized for not having this building start?
RE: 50 Borden Ave S | 51, 57 fl | Proposed - ZEBuilder - 02-21-2024
(02-21-2024, 08:00 PM)nms Wrote: So if this gets approved, but then Vive sits on it, does Kitchener get penalized for not having this building start?
The simplest answer is yes. If a municipality meets it's yearly target for units under construction they get a certain amount of money. However if the municipality approves the units but the developer sits on it the municipality doesn't get anything. So in the case of Kitchener in 2023 the number of approved units (SPA and OPA/ZBA) met the province's target but because developers are sitting on units the city gets penalized and gets nothing.