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+--- Thread: Trails (/showthread.php?tid=378)
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RE: Trails - Section ThirtyOne - 01-24-2018
How is what people are doing now not considered jaywalking? You're probably thinking the word was used to promote some sort of negative spin perhaps, but crossing Victoria right at the trail fits the definition...
Also, lets play the devils advocate here shall we? Yes, people are being lazy and taxpayers are paying 2 million dollars because of it. 2 million to save trail users a 125m detour is not a good use of funds IMO; that money could be better spent elsewhere as part of a need rather than a 'nice to have'.
RE: Trails - Canard - 01-24-2018
It’s not 2 million for an island. You just proved CTV’s spin worked.
I don’t have the energy to explain it all. I’m sure others will.
I used to cross at the lights, and almost died every time. So now I cross two roads in two separate chunks with half the traffic flow on each. Far safer.
Google even shows the trail where people are “jaywalking”.
My attitudes have changed a lot in the past year or so toward this kind of thing.
RE: Trails - Section ThirtyOne - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 10:59 AM)Canard Wrote: It’s not 2 million for an island. You just proved CTV’s spin worked.
I don’t have the energy to explain it all. I’m sure others will.
I used to cross at the lights, and almost died every time. So now I cross two roads in two separate chunks with half the traffic flow on each. Far safer.
Google even shows the trail where people are “jaywalking”.
My attitudes have changed a lot in the past year or so toward this kind of thing.
I know there are other trail improvements included in the alotted amount, don't worry. I'd be willing to bet the island installation consumes a good chunk of those dollars, however.
How did you "almost die" crossing at the lights? I'm not understanding how crossing at a controlled intersection is less safe than crossing at an uncontrolled site with a pedestrian refuge?
RE: Trails - Canard - 01-24-2018
I’m biking along North on the trail (coming from Victoria Park, say).
So I have to make this shallow merge off the trail onto the road. Almost die spot one.
Then I have to get into the left turn lane, with sometimes super-fast cars coming up my ass.
Then the light goes green and I go into the intersection and someone flying along Victoria on a stale yellow (red) almost hits me turning left. Cute and fun!
Then I get to stand there in the middle of this massive intersection with my arm out, cars coming on Strange, waiting for a break.
Then when the light goes yellow, and I can finally go, the 3 cars behind me are annoyed and floor it sharply left while I have to swing wide to hit the bike lane, and by then the light had gone green on Victoria.
Last danger point is turning right up the curb to continue on the trail. It’s a bump and I can fall off my bike there very easily if not careful.
RE: Trails - ijmorlan - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 10:53 AM)Section ThirtyOne Wrote: How is what people are doing now not considered jaywalking? You're probably thinking the word was used to promote some sort of negative spin perhaps, but crossing Victoria right at the trail fits the definition...
Also, lets play the devils advocate here shall we? Yes, people are being lazy and taxpayers are paying 2 million dollars because of it. 2 million to save trail users a 125m detour is not a good use of funds IMO; that money could be better spent elsewhere as part of a need rather than a 'nice to have'.
It is jaywalking, but the correct fix is to install a proper crossing rather than tut-tutting at people who are just trying to get to where they need to be. We regularly spend huge amounts of money to straighten out roads and make car routes more direct; to even suggest that the trail is not worthy of the same consideration is basically a form of bigotry as far as I’m concerned. Now of course, like all projects, trail improvements need to pass a cost/benefit test; it wouldn’t be worth modifying the intersection for a couple of people per day. But this trail is a major traffic route. Also please note as pointed out by others the island installation will not cost $2 million; that is the entire project cost, including many other improvements.
RE: Trails - KevinL - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 10:53 AM)Section ThirtyOne Wrote: How is what people are doing now not considered jaywalking?
For the record, jaywalking has no definition in Ontario law and is not an offence. The Highway Traffic Act only emphasizes that pedestrians use crosswalks where available, but if crossing mid-block be aware of all traffic and ensure they can cross safely.
RE: Trails - Rainrider22 - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 11:16 AM)Canard Wrote: I’m biking along North on the trail (coming from Victoria Park, say).
So I have to make this shallow merge off the trail onto the road. Almost die spot one.
Then I have to get into the left turn lane, with sometimes super-fast cars coming up my ass.
Then the light goes green and I go into the intersection and someone flying along Victoria on a stale yellow (red) almost hits me turning left. Cute and fun!
Then I get to stand there in the middle of this massive intersection with my arm out, cars coming on Strange, waiting for a break.
Then when the light goes yellow, and I can finally go, the 3 cars behind me are annoyed and floor it sharply left while I have to swing wide to hit the bike lane, and by then the light had gone green on Victoria.
Last danger point is turning right up the curb to continue on the trail. It’s a bump and I can fall off my bike there very easily if not careful.
Great video, send that to the city so they can see how ridiculous, let alone added danger to riding the trail.....
RE: Trails - Coke6pk - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 10:53 AM)Section ThirtyOne Wrote: How is what people are doing now not considered jaywalking? You're probably thinking the word was used to promote some sort of negative spin perhaps, but crossing Victoria right at the trail fits the definition...
Also, lets play the devils advocate here shall we? Yes, people are being lazy and taxpayers are paying 2 million dollars because of it. 2 million to save trail users a 125m detour is not a good use of funds IMO; that money could be better spent elsewhere as part of a need rather than a 'nice to have'.
Correct me if I am wrong, but crossing at an uncontrolled location is "Crossing the street" and isn't illegal in any way/shape/form. Pedestrians need to be sure it is safe to cross.
"Jaywalking" is at a controlled intersection, where the "DON'T WALK" is displayed, and you choose to cross anyway (regardless of traffic).
Coke
RE: Trails - Coke6pk - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 11:20 AM)KevinL Wrote:(01-24-2018, 10:53 AM)Section ThirtyOne Wrote: How is what people are doing now not considered jaywalking?
For the record, jaywalking has no definition in Ontario law and is not an offence. The Highway Traffic Act only emphasizes that pedestrians use crosswalks where available, but if crossing mid-block be aware of all traffic and ensure they can cross safely.
Further to my comment above, while not a provincial offence, it can be controlled at the municipal level. Jaywalking IS an offence in Toronto.
Coke
RE: Trails - Section ThirtyOne - 01-24-2018
While I respect your concerns, this sort of thing can occur anywhere you are riding on a roadway (especially when turning left!). I see poor behaviour from drivers all the time, it's nothing new. If you feel that strongly about your safety, you could always dismount and cross at the crosswalk. That alone would eliminate most of your danger spots.
RE: Trails - kaiserdiver - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 11:41 AM)Section ThirtyOne Wrote: While I respect your concerns, this sort of thing can occur anywhere you are riding on a roadway (especially when turning left!). I see poor behaviour from drivers all the time, it's nothing new. If you feel that strongly about your safety, you could always dismount and cross at the crosswalk. That alone would eliminate most of your danger spots.
This "solution" is not reasonable for one of the major mixed use trails in the Region. And please, who doesn't feel strongly about their safety? This doesn't really suggest you have a real respect or understanding of the concerns.
RE: Trails - plam - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 11:41 AM)Section ThirtyOne Wrote: While I respect your concerns, this sort of thing can occur anywhere you are riding on a roadway (especially when turning left!). I see poor behaviour from drivers all the time, it's nothing new. If you feel that strongly about your safety, you could always dismount and cross at the crosswalk. That alone would eliminate most of your danger spots.
One could also step out of one's car and push it across the street, yes?
RE: Trails - danbrotherston - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 11:34 AM)Coke6pk Wrote:(01-24-2018, 11:20 AM)KevinL Wrote: For the record, jaywalking has no definition in Ontario law and is not an offence. The Highway Traffic Act only emphasizes that pedestrians use crosswalks where available, but if crossing mid-block be aware of all traffic and ensure they can cross safely.
Further to my comment above, while not a provincial offence, it can be controlled at the municipal level. Jaywalking IS an offence in Toronto.
Coke
Actually, it's not clear this is the case, generally, the municipal bylaws cannot contravene the HTA. This is why WRPS stated unequivocally that the "cyclists must ride single file" bylaw would not be enforced.
And for the record, this is in Waterloo Region, not Toronto, and there is no bylaw against it. CTV is implying something is illegal which is perfectly legal.
RE: Trails - timc - 01-24-2018
If crossing at that spot is jaywalking, does adding an island somehow legitimize it?
RE: Trails - Section ThirtyOne - 01-24-2018
(01-24-2018, 12:00 PM)kaiserdiver Wrote:(01-24-2018, 11:41 AM)Section ThirtyOne Wrote: While I respect your concerns, this sort of thing can occur anywhere you are riding on a roadway (especially when turning left!). I see poor behaviour from drivers all the time, it's nothing new. If you feel that strongly about your safety, you could always dismount and cross at the crosswalk. That alone would eliminate most of your danger spots.
This "solution" is not reasonable for one of the major mixed use trails in the Region. And please, who doesn't feel strongly about their safety? This doesn't really suggest you have a real respect or understanding of the concerns.
Why is it not reasonable? Because it is an inconvenience? And living less than 100m from the trail and being a frequent user, I have a good grasp of the concerns thank you very much. My point is, the safe option already exists despite being inconvenient. You want to cross mid-block and save time? Then assume the risks.