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General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Printable Version

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RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Tony_Plow - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 12:58 PM)Momo26 Wrote: I can appreciate where Tony_Plow is going with this. I am one of the folks really excited to see the revitalization and return of a bustling DTK. A lot of these projects are set to be completed in 2021/2022 and newer ones in 2023 (even taking into account COVID). For me the biggest indicator is going to be how many new businesses decide to move forward with plans of moving into or expanding their DTK presence. Jobs = people living close to work = businesses opening to serve this population.

All with A wrench in it due to COVID. 3 years to even 5 years is what I consider 'over night'

Thanks!  I appreciate that driving through DTK on a Sunday evening is much different than being there on a weekday at lunch hour.  I also agree that the new condo developments are going to make a difference over time.  It's exciting to know of so many developments on the horizon.  Personally, I think it will take approx. 10 years for DTK to have a safer, more bustling feel outside of working hours (and for some of the grungier businesses to turn over between Victoria and Frederick).  I wonder if the City/Region can do anything else to help move this process along.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - taylortbb - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 02:52 PM)Tony_Plow Wrote: It's exciting to know of so many developments on the horizon.  Personally, I think it will take approx. 10 years for DTK to have a safer, more bustling feel outside of working hours (and for some of the grungier businesses to turn over between Victoria and Frederick).  I wonder if the City/Region can do anything else to help move this process along.

What businesses do you feel are grungy? Certainly a few years ago there was a sizeable set of sketchy bars downtown, but at this point Caper's is really all that's left and it's closing soon. Dollarama maybe is, due to the crowd that often sits outside it, but I don't think Dollarama is an inherently "grungy" business (and certainly the one on Fairway isn't).

I think DTK being bustling outside work hours will happen sooner than 10 years. Pre-Covid going out on a Friday night I've already had regular problems getting a table at 10pm at Grand Surf, Grand Trunk, or Sugar Run. That says there's demand, and that DTK is a Friday night destination. Add all the condo projects currently under construction (especially Charlie West, Young, and DTK as they're right in the central core) and I think we'll be seeing quite a significant uptick over the next few years.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ac3r - 06-29-2020

The pandemic is one reason why the downtown is so quiet at the moment. What is also true - and someone pointed it out - is that we're a region of over 600'000 people, but we have 3 downtown cores. Aside from that, what the downtown is really lacking is retail and things to do. There are very few interesting shops and even fewer things like art galleries, cinemas, music venues and so on.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - danbrotherston - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 04:24 PM)ac3r Wrote: The pandemic is one reason why the downtown is so quiet at the moment. What is also true - and someone pointed it out - is that we're a region of over 600'000 people, but we have 3 downtown cores. Aside from that, what the downtown is really lacking is retail and things to do. There are very few interesting shops and even fewer things like art galleries, cinemas, music venues and so on.

Downtown does in fact have a cinema, an art gallery, and several music venues...

Edit:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.448548,-80.4861357,3a,23.7y,187.49h,89.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFO4364IkWuin829lILpT9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Apollo+Cinema/@43.4519444,-80.4888889,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x882bf4f2b8605b17:0xd7349fdbbdc1376f!8m2!3d43.4519444!4d-80.4888889?hl=en
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Conrad+Centre+for+the+Performing+Arts/@43.4502232,-80.4898258,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x882bf4f2f3523bcb:0x7cc51174fc487f3!8m2!3d43.4502232!4d-80.4898258?hl=en

I think the biggest failing in DTK is advertising, aside from the apollo, which I frequent quite a bit, I wouldn't know about these things if I didn't walk past them...which is why foot traffic is so important.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ac3r - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 04:26 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(06-29-2020, 04:24 PM)ac3r Wrote: The pandemic is one reason why the downtown is so quiet at the moment. What is also true - and someone pointed it out - is that we're a region of over 600'000 people, but we have 3 downtown cores. Aside from that, what the downtown is really lacking is retail and things to do. There are very few interesting shops and even fewer things like art galleries, cinemas, music venues and so on.

Downtown does in fact have a cinema, an art gallery, and several music venues...

Edit:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.448548,-80.4861357,3a,23.7y,187.49h,89.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFO4364IkWuin829lILpT9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Apollo+Cinema/@43.4519444,-80.4888889,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x882bf4f2b8605b17:0xd7349fdbbdc1376f!8m2!3d43.4519444!4d-80.4888889?hl=en
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Conrad+Centre+for+the+Performing+Arts/@43.4502232,-80.4898258,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x882bf4f2f3523bcb:0x7cc51174fc487f3!8m2!3d43.4502232!4d-80.4898258?hl=en

I think the biggest failing in DTK is advertising, aside from the apollo, which I frequent quite a bit, I wouldn't know about these things if I didn't walk past them...which is why foot traffic is so important.

Yeah I know, but it's still not enough. People don't want to go to the same gallery, cinema or theatre all the time. Art galleries only show, at most, 2 exhibits every 2 or 3 months. Cinemas play the same films for weeks at a time. Music venues...well I can't comment on our local ones, since I don't listen to the kind of music that is ever played live in Waterloo Region. There is just almost nothing downtown that will draw people down there, and that's a problem. A downtown can't survive on condos and cafes for yuppies.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 06-29-2020

In a normal year ... Centre in the Square typically has multiple concerts per week. The symphony plays at the Conrad Centre. There is regularly live music at many downtown restaurants and bars. Victoria Park provides a huge play area for children. And in the summer months, there are festivals nearly every weekend. In the winter there is less to do, but we still have outdoor skating at the city hall. Greenlight and Registry provide small-scale theatre, as does K-W Little Theatre on the Waterloo side. A nice (if small-scale) market. An interesting museum. And a fabulous public library.

There are things to do indeed, it's not just condos and cafes for yuppies. Not every night, and not of interest to every person. But neither is it a dead zone.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - BruceAshe - 06-29-2020

I think the small gallery on King is gone now. It looked completely empty when I walked by it yesterday. Unless they removed everything for some other reason.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - ijmorlan - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 11:44 AM)Acitta Wrote: If Waterloo Region was a single city with a single downtown then you would probably see more people walking downtown, but the Region has six downtowns so people are more spread out.

Can you expand on the 6 downtowns? I normally think of Waterloo/Kitchener/Cambridge; but then Cambridge is really 3 so we end up with Waterloo/Kitchener/Galt/Preston/Hespeler; but I’m having trouble thinking of the 6th.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - panamaniac - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 05:08 PM)BruceAshe Wrote: I think the small gallery on King is gone now. It looked completely empty when I walked by it yesterday. Unless they removed everything for some other reason.
If it were me, I’d have moved everything out to protect against theft/vandalism.  Although they may have thrown in the towel, I don’t know.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - dtkvictim - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 04:26 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think the biggest failing in DTK is advertising, aside from the apollo, which I frequent quite a bit, I wouldn't know about these things if I didn't walk past them...which is why foot traffic is so important.

I don't think I can agree with this. Places like the Conrad Center really only attract people who are already going to actively seek out that kind of entertainment. I absolutely love the Apollo, but if I was a suburban living car driver, I can get close enough of an experience at any other theater without the negative experiences of DTK. Same thing for many of the more generic restaurants and bars that dot the downtown. I think most of my friends (all suburban living) are aware of what's available downtown, especially since I've mentioned much of what's available, and they continue to choose to not come here.

I think repeat-customer kind of retail and unique experience based businesses are what will get a consistent flow of people visiting downtown, but there is a bit of a chicken and egg problem there.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - CedarHillAlum - 06-29-2020

(06-28-2020, 02:30 PM)tomh009 Wrote: I do believe that church owns the retirement apartment building, yes.
A quick google search shows The Portuguese Society of K W is the owner, not the church.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 05:08 PM)BruceAshe Wrote: I think the small gallery on King is gone now. It looked completely empty when I walked by it yesterday. Unless they removed everything for some other reason.

District Gallery. Yes, they have closed. At the moment they do not have a public exhibition space.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 05:39 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(06-29-2020, 11:44 AM)Acitta Wrote: If Waterloo Region was a single city with a single downtown then you would probably see more people walking downtown, but the Region has six downtowns so people are more spread out.

Can you expand on the 6 downtowns? I normally think of Waterloo/Kitchener/Cambridge; but then Cambridge is really 3 so we end up with Waterloo/Kitchener/Galt/Preston/Hespeler; but I’m having trouble thinking of the 6th.

Cambridge was originally Galt, Preston, Hespeler and Blair! But maybe Acitta was referring to Elmira?


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - danbrotherston - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 09:00 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(06-29-2020, 05:39 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: Can you expand on the 6 downtowns? I normally think of Waterloo/Kitchener/Cambridge; but then Cambridge is really 3 so we end up with Waterloo/Kitchener/Galt/Preston/Hespeler; but I’m having trouble thinking of the 6th.

Cambridge was originally Galt, Preston, Hespeler and Blair! But maybe Acitta was referring to Elmira?

Or Belmont Village, or New Hamburg. Smile...

Lots of centres, which isn't a bad thing...if we had focused on them.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - danbrotherston - 06-29-2020

(06-29-2020, 06:15 PM)dtkvictim Wrote:
(06-29-2020, 04:26 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think the biggest failing in DTK is advertising, aside from the apollo, which I frequent quite a bit, I wouldn't know about these things if I didn't walk past them...which is why foot traffic is so important.

I don't think I can agree with this. Places like the Conrad Center really only attract people who are already going to actively seek out that kind of entertainment. I absolutely love the Apollo, but if I was a suburban living car driver, I can get close enough of an experience at any other theater without the negative experiences of DTK. Same thing for many of the more generic restaurants and bars that dot the downtown. I think most of my friends (all suburban living) are aware of what's available downtown, especially since I've mentioned much of what's available, and they continue to choose to not come here.

I think repeat-customer kind of retail and unique experience based businesses are what will get a consistent flow of people visiting downtown, but there is a bit of a chicken and egg problem there.

There is literally no possible downtown theater that will attract suburban folks who want free parking, and are scared of downtown. The point is, there is a theater downtown, and it's great for us downtown folks, and folks who want a downtown experience, rather than a drive to suburban mall experience.

I don't even think there's value in trying to attract a suburban car dependent crowd to downtown, all they will do is clog the roads, demand free parking, and generally complain about downtown. Those who want a downtown experience will come here, or live here, or live on transit, those who want a suburban mall experience will never enjoy downtown. And there's nothing wrong with that, we have an abundance of suburbia for them to enjoy. What we lack is an abundance of downtown style living, but we are growing it. And I don't mean to exclude people outside of downtown--there are many other areas outside of DTK where people may can live an urban--car light style of living. I do mean to exclude people who are entierly dependent on their car for getting around. If you want to use a car to go to the movie theater, you will probably be happier at cineplex every time. But if you don't want to use a car to get to the theater, going to cineplex is unpleasant and scary, I'm very glad that we have alternatives now. Realistically though, nobody is being excluded, there is tons of parking downtown (too much in my opinion), and it's too easily (also in my opinion) accessible by car. People who want to come downtown, have no problem doing so. But so many people don't want to, so why should we try to attract them--we can only do so by ruining the experience that makes an urban area pleasant and unique to those who want that.

The original question was that downtown is lacking things, I think it's been explained very clearly by myself and many others that most of the things people think are missing, are in fact here...the fact that they don't replicate the suburban mall experience is a feature, not a problem.

I agree there probably are retail segments missing from downtown, but I am frequently surprised that when I think of something that is missing, I can often find a small business which actually fills that niche, but I do have to look.