Vertikal (471-481 King St E) | 23 & 19 fl | U/C

[ZEBuilder]

In this latest render, the Madison Tower looks taller then the Cameron Tower.

It's just because of the perspective, if you count the floors the Cameron tower is still taller.

[jamincan]

I too wonder what's wrong with the podium. It looks like it has a great street presence compared to most buildings. I thought that was the one strong point of the design. I honestly care very little how the actual tower looks compared to what's happening at the ground level.

[westwardloo]

I guess everyone is different but not sure how you can care less about the design towers? Do you not live in the area or do you not travel to the downtown often? These towers will be a fairly visible part of our skyline.  Maybe I am the only one that cares about the look of a building? 

I will admit that the retail level is actually looks like it will be a functional use of space along what I assume is king street. 

This development is huge! It is a whole city block and the podium will dominate what the area is going to look like for a long time. The best they could come up with is brown and orange accent colours on what i assume will be brick/ stone precast veneer? Not sure what the random use of glass is at the bottom left? is it actually part of the structure or is it just artistic accent fastened to the veneer? a random fourth floor that is set back just enough to match up with the towers but is a different design then the podium and the towers.

My point is I know these are cheap rental towers, but you can do cheap with a coherent design. 

These developments are allowed to have good street presence and a decent design it doesn't take much.  

[mastermind]

I don't think it's beautiful but I don't hate it. I'm not super fond of bright colours on towers. I agree with jamincan that if the street presence is there, the tower is less critical. If it brings in lots of people walking around at street level, that's where everyone's focus will be anyway. Who cares about what the car driver a kilometer away thinks it looks like.

[Bjays93]

I guess everyone is different but not sure how you can care less about the design towers? Do you not live in the area or do you not travel to the downtown often? These towers will be a fairly visible part of our skyline.  Maybe I am the only one that cares about the look of a building? 

You are not the only one who cares about the look of the buildings absolutely not. I would have to agree that the street presence does absolutely outweigh the building design though. 

Take toronto for example, if you visit UT many members also complain about the ugliness or cheapness of the condos going up there, but you'll notice with the uptick in higher quality condos in recent years, the old ones that were a blight on the landscape no longer stick out. 

Assuming/hoping Covid doesnt mess things up too bad, maybe these buildings are prominent for 10 years, but I fully expect they will get drowned out by larger high rises in the core to the point that eventually no one will this development a second thought, so long as whatever is happening at street level is not an eyesore that is.

[tomh009]

I also wonder whether this is actually the final render. Yes, it's from the recent Record article, but that doesn't mean that the Record contacted Drewlo to get an up-to-date image.

[jamincan]

I guess everyone is different but not sure how you can care less about the design towers? Do you not live in the area or do you not travel to the downtown often? These towers will be a fairly visible part of our skyline.  Maybe I am the only one that cares about the look of a building? 

I will admit that the retail level is actually looks like it will be a functional use of space along what I assume is king street. 

This development is huge! It is a whole city block and the podium will dominate what the area is going to look like for a long time. The best they could come up with is brown and orange accent colours on what i assume will be brick/ stone precast veneer? Not sure what the random use of glass is at the bottom left? is it actually part of the structure or is it just artistic accent fastened to the veneer? a random fourth floor that is set back just enough to match up with the towers but is a different design then the podium and the towers.

My point is I know these are cheap rental towers, but you can do cheap with a coherent design. 

These developments are allowed to have good street presence and a decent design it doesn't take much.  

I can understand and appreciate a building or structure in multiple different ways. Aesthetically I don't find this building particularly remarkable. I don't find it objectionable, but I don't find it beautiful either. My tastes are also different from the next person and change over time. I don't really think it should be the primary basis for critiquing a building, especially in the context of building approvals etc.

My understanding of whether a building is 'good' or 'bad' is rooted more in its functionality. A building is a long-term alteration of the landscape and we should expect to live with it for over 100 years. Aesthetics will change many times in that period. Good quality materials matter to me then. If it looks like crap in 10 years, I don't care if the original aesthetics of the building were appealing. More importantly, how I interact with the building on the street has a much larger overall impact on our built space. I love the aesthetics of Le Corbusier, but his ideas are just not functional.

So for this building, I like its street presence. It excels there were a lot of buildings are deficient. I think the comments about poor material choices are definitely concerning. But the aesthetics is not really any more consequential to me than differing beer preference is.

[tomh009]

a random fourth floor that is set back just enough to match up with the towers but is a different design then the podium and the towers.

I believe the fourth floor has various rooftop amenities, that's why it doesn't look the same as the third floor.

[panamaniac]

Where are people getting their information about the exterior cladding? As a rental apartment, EIFS would not be a big surprise, but the most recently posted render seems to show a mix of materials including manufactured stone and brick (on the podium), to the extent one can tell.

[ac3r]

I think my problem with it is that it looks like it was made out of a box of random Lego blocks. There are all these random colours, patterns, different balconies. There is just no harmony or form to this, which is an absolute must when designing a building. Some of the earliest classes an architect will take involve researching form, designing buildings, making models and having your professors critique them.

With this, I can't figure out why there are some parts that are red, beige, blue and white? Why are there weird patterns on a few floors, for absolutely no reason? I'm trained as an architect, so obviously I really critique the visual design of a building. If someone came up with this in my firm, they'd probably be fired haha. Yes, not every building needs to be amazing, but it's still possible to look good regardless. I could tolerate this mess if it was a student apartment building nobody will ever really see, but this is the first major residential development on this side of the downtown, right on King Street. It's going to be around for the next 60-70+ years, and it's sure not going to age well. Even the podium looks bad - it reminds me of a strip mall or something. It doesn't take much to use proper form and material (you don't even need to spend lots of money on fancy material, just make sure what you use has some aesthetic value and coherence to it).

[jamincan]

I wish I knew where you lived, because I wish strip malls in my area had mixed uses and were street-facing...

It seems pretty obvious to me that they are trying to make the podium be more like a traditional Ontario main street - not in material, but in the way that every building while adjoining the next, is still distinct. It's the thing that stands out to me, is definitely the most distinctive aspect of the building, and I think potentially its strongest suit. Now, I'm not one hundred percent sure it will succeed in its execution. I'm not thrilled with the way they have sort of outlined the upper floors with some sort of stone product, but it's hard to say exactly how it will come out from this rendering.

[ijmorlan]

I wish I knew where you lived, because I wish strip malls in my area had mixed uses and were street-facing...

It seems pretty obvious to me that they are trying to make the podium be more like a traditional Ontario main street - not in material, but in the way that every building while adjoining the next, is still distinct. It's the thing that stands out to me, is definitely the most distinctive aspect of the building, and I think potentially its strongest suit. Now, I'm not one hundred percent sure it will succeed in its execution. I'm not thrilled with the way they have sort of outlined the upper floors with some sort of stone product, but it's hard to say exactly how it will come out from this rendering.

I was going to say that the podium looks like an old-style 3-4 story main street. Maybe more glass than would have been used 100 years ago, but that’s OK.

Also I can’t tell if there is a portico, which should be mandatory for buildings which contribute to a continuous street wall.

[panamaniac]

I wish I knew where you lived, because I wish strip malls in my area had mixed uses and were street-facing...

It seems pretty obvious to me that they are trying to make the podium be more like a traditional Ontario main street - not in material, but in the way that every building while adjoining the next, is still distinct. It's the thing that stands out to me, is definitely the most distinctive aspect of the building, and I think potentially its strongest suit. Now, I'm not one hundred percent sure it will succeed in its execution. I'm not thrilled with the way they have sort of outlined the upper floors with some sort of stone product, but it's hard to say exactly how it will come out from this rendering.

I was going to say that the podium looks like an old-style 3-4 story main street. Maybe more glass than would have been used 100 years ago, but that’s OK.

Also I can’t tell if there is a portico, which should be mandatory for buildings which contribute to a continuous street wall.

Portico?  You mean canopies?   That would be nice but I’d be surprised.

[taylortbb]

Also I can’t tell if there is a portico, which should be mandatory for buildings which contribute to a continuous street wall.

I definitely remember reading in a news article that there would be a portico along King St. It's been through enough design revisions I'm not sure it's on the final version though.

[ijmorlan]

Portico?  You mean canopies?   That would be nice but I’d be surprised.

I might. I’m a bit confused about terminology in this area. I thought a portico was a covering over an entrance area; but then I read something about Bologna, Italy, which is famous for its “porticos”. It has dozens of kilometres of them, including one 1.6km long that goes out into the countryside to reach a church.

Previously I had heard them referred to as arcades (I’m guessing pronounced with 3 syllables: ar - cad - ees, but I don’t actually know).

Anyway, unlike fully indoor links, where I do recognize issues in some circumstances even without being fully onboard with others’ criticisms, I just can’t see any downside at all to whatever these covered walkways are called and I think they should be mandatory for buildings like this one. They should be continuous and go all the way around the block (assuming the whole block is developed).