Victoria and Park | 25, 36, 38 fl | Proposed

[tomh009]

Is that brick cladding or more bloody painted concrete?

Given that none of it is at street level, I think the odds favour precast concrete with a brick pattern. Real brick would be nicer but decent precast can be OK too.

[taylortbb]

The PDF has the footprint of a future building at Victoria/Bramm, taking the three parcels along Victoria between this development and Bramm St. It just says "Future Application. Not part of application". So it looks like we have something to expect there.

[CP42]

Ah so this finally went public! I was on the design team for this project last year. We'll start seeing more GTA based developers and architecture firms building here. Most likely this will get approved. And indeed, the densification of Victoria Street is helping to further the case study of a second LRT line running east-west. It's one reason developers are eyeing Victoria Street.

The full list of documents is available here if anyone wants more info besides the urban design report: https://app2.kitchener.ca/AppDocs/OpenDa...637062.pdf

Wow there is a lot of detailed information available here. Quite interesting!
Why is it that there is more publicly available information for some projects (such as this one), versus a lack of public information for others (such as Station Park)?

[ac3r]

Why is it that there is more publicly available information for some projects (such as this one), versus a lack of public information for others (such as Station Park)?

Some developers just choose to submit more information to the city, who then make it available.

[cherrypark]

This is awesome! I hope NIMBYS don't get in the way though. I know there was quite a few complaints for Garment Street

I commit to reporting for duty at whatever consultation meetings come up to wave the YIMBY flag.

[GtwoK]

Is that brick cladding or more bloody painted concrete?

The design docs label it as "Brick" — whether it stays that way in the final product remains to be seen, of course.

[plam]

I mean, this is great, but I'll harp again...this continues to mean putting high density along a traffic sewer.

This will only help the region make a case for the potential "phase 3" of the LRT. Which I could see going from Ottawa and Lackner to the Boardwalk. Following Ottawa, then River, then Victoria, then somehow to Highland, then Ira needles.

I was just staying at a friend's new townhouse on a car sewer street in Christchurch. It really is terrible, though good windows could help a bit. LRT would really help to reduce the car sewerness of it eventually.

[danbrotherston]

This will only help the region make a case for the potential "phase 3" of the LRT. Which I could see going from Ottawa and Lackner to the Boardwalk. Following Ottawa, then River, then Victoria, then somehow to Highland, then Ira needles.

I was just staying at a friend's new townhouse on a car sewer street in Christchurch. It really is terrible, though good windows could help a bit. LRT would really help to reduce the car sewerness of it eventually.

I think it's optimistic to think there will be an LRT along there.

They won't even run an iXpress bus because of the two lane section. The only way to get around that is to buy one side of the road and demolish. I don't see that improving the road.

I think we are more likely to see a 4->3 lane conversion on a few sections of Victoria west of King, and the LRT run elsewhere west of King. But even that, I think is optimistic with the current regional staff and council.

[jeffster]

This is awesome! I hope NIMBYS don't get in the way though. I know there was quite a few complaints for Garment Street

That's something you can't count on. They will complain. Something about the shadows ruining the view of the passing VIA train.

[tomh009]

They won't even run an iXpress bus because of the two lane section. The only way to get around that is to buy one side of the road and demolish. I don't see that improving the road.

Can't they expropriate a few metres of front yard on each side, and then make the lanes a bit narrower (yes, I know, not a popular option in the planning circles ...)? Or even to make one more lane in the middle?

[tomh009]

Victoria St widening?

The Subject Site sits at the northeastern corner of Victoria Street South and Park in Kitchener (for ease
of reference in this Report, Victoria Street South is referenced as running east-west and Park Street as
north-south), which is the western entrance to the Downtown Kitchener (see Figure 1). It is 8,999 square
metres (0.89 hectares) in area in total area, prior to the required road widening of 250 square metres
along Victoria Street South. It is generally square in configuration with 70.9 metres of frontage along
Victoria Street South and 94.6 metres along Park Street.

[ac3r]

This is awesome! I hope NIMBYS don't get in the way though. I know there was quite a few complaints for Garment Street

That's something you can't count on. They will complain. Something about the shadows ruining the view of the passing VIA train.

Thankfully we seem to be at the point where the cities just listen to their grievances but approve the projects anyway because they realize that these complaints are not that serious. This progress is going to happen no matter what a group of NIMBYs says. Big cities like New York City, São Paulo or Osaka had NIMBYs complaining over the last century but nevertheless, the cities still grew. It'll happen here as well.

[nms]

From my quick scan of the documents, here are few take aways:
- This development does not include the small "Victoria Apartment" building nor the house between it and the old dry cleaning building further along Victoria St. The Victoria Apartment building is a listed building
- There are some ground floor townhouse type units since there was a row of units labeled "yard"
- 1150 are projected: 734 one bedroom; 416 two bedroom units; 0 three bedroom units
- no mention of affordable housing provisions or payments to offset request for variances (I am willing to be corrected on this one if I missed it in my skim)
- The most uncomfortable spot to stand in the winter will be waiting for the lights to change at Park and Victoria
- The traffic analysis does not provide much information about the impact of additional pedestrian traffic on the surrounding sidewalks (this is likely a systemic issue with all traffic studies that are more focused on car and truck traffic). If the pedestrians are expected to walk the 550m from the development to the LRT stop, what's the sidewalk and cycling infrastructure like along the route?
- The Victoria & Park intersection is already a challenge to navigate with a car during peak periods. I'm not sure that it's going to improve with this much additional traffic
- The buildings are going to cast a pretty brutal shadow through the Victoria Park neighbourhood during the winter months with some houses losing between 2-3 hours of afternoon sunlight
- 51 trees are to be removed from the site

[tomh009]

You did miss the affordable housing:

1. Affordable housing units:
The Owner commits to 50 residential units on-site as part of the development that meet the
definition as affordable housing per the 2020 PPS and Regional and Kitchener Official Plans
(ownership units at most $368,000). These are one-bedroom units distributed throughout
different floors of the podium and/or towers.

2. Affordable housing contribution:
The Owner is committing to a financial contribution to a non-profit affordable housing provider
to support the development of an off-site affordable housing project in Kitchener. This
contribution is meant to complement the above on-site affordable units by supporting the
provision of targeted “deeper” affordable units in the city. Details of the provider or contribution
has not been finalized at this time.

I can't see that LRT passengers from one group of buildings would overcrowd the sidewalks between Park and Victoria. But if you have the math that shows otherwise, please do share.

As for car traffic, if we assume 600 cars (90% of capacity) traveling in a three-hour peak period in the mornings and again in the afternoons, and half heading to Waterloo and the other half to Kitchener (via Park & Victoria), that's about an additional car and a half per minute at the intersection. I don't think it will be overwhelmed by that.

Where did you find the shadow impact analysis?

[ijmorlan]

Victoria St widening?

The Subject Site sits at the northeastern corner of Victoria Street South and Park in Kitchener (for ease
of reference in this Report, Victoria Street South is referenced as running east-west and Park Street as
north-south), which is the western entrance to the Downtown Kitchener (see Figure 1). It is 8,999 square
metres (0.89 hectares) in area in total area, prior to the required road widening of 250 square metres
along Victoria Street South. It is generally square in configuration with 70.9 metres of frontage along
Victoria Street South and 94.6 metres along Park Street.

No inside or expert information here, but my understanding is that many streets have provisions for widening on the books which require that redeveloped properties be redeveloped as if the road allowance were wider than it currently is. Over time as properties are redeveloped, impediments to road widening are gradually removed so that when the widening actually happens all that needs to be expropriated is a strip of empty space across the front of each property.

Or maybe the land is transferred on each redevelopment. I know that if you look at the cadastral map you can see that some road allowances are irregular, with the road allowance in front of some properties widened and in front of others not widened.