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The COVID-19 pandemic
(01-14-2022, 09:52 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Yeah, don't tell me things are alright:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/o...-1.6314122

This is ALREADY killing people.

I'm so fucking done with shit, I know people are tired, I'm tired too. But I don't care if you're tired, or that I'm tired, we're not literally dying of cancer because of anti-vaxxers.

A tax is the nicest thing I can think of right now.

There is so much more than can be done:

1) Kick people out of stores with dirty masks, or not wearing a mask, or wearing below the nose, mouth, etc. And charge them $100 to boot.
2) Shut down all public transit because hygiene is non-existent and mask enforcement is not followed, at all.
3) Shut washrooms at all public facilities because people are pigs and don't sanitize after wiping their dirty asshole. Alternatively, charge people $2 to use the washroom, so business can afford to have staff properly sanitize and ensure public safety of the facilities.
4) Mandatory glove and googles when out and about. People touch things everywhere they go - which have been infected by disgusting people with disgusting hygiene practices - and proceed to touch their eyes.
5) Mandatory education for all Canadian about hygiene, and proper diet and exercise.
6) Mandatory tax on anyone using the hospital with lifestyle co-morbid's.
7) Mandatory tax on anyone using the hospital with risk induced injuries.
8) Mandatory tax on anyone that hangs out with family and friends outside their household as long as we have covid.

You do that, then unlucky individuals who got cancer, covid, or any disease or injury not related to the above can receive first-class healthcare.

And, you do that, Covid will be conquered in this province.
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Ultimately, in the end, we live in a society that attempts to grant as much freedom and autonomy to its citizens, so unless we decide to strip rights away, there will always be aspects of our society who do not want to do what they are told is best for themselves or society at large. And, except for things like murder/rape/serious theft etc, it's good we allow that choice because a human being should be able to be free to make their own choices.

I think anti-vaxxers are all stupid, but they have the right to decline a vaccine if they want or to smoke and drink until they're dead. If we started forcing things on people, it sets a bad ethical and philosophical precedent. People are free to not vaccinate against measles for example, but we still managed to beat that down. We'll do the same with this virus. The human species is far too determined to live harmoniously for us to fail against this virus and any others that come our way.
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(01-14-2022, 01:12 PM)jeffster Wrote: As for weak-minded anti-vaxxers who get their information from FaceBook and radio talk shows -- that blame goes directly to the government and (social)media for allowing that shit in the first place.

Freedom of speech is one of our fundamental freedoms. As Evelyn Hall said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
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(01-14-2022, 01:29 PM)jeffster Wrote:
(01-14-2022, 09:52 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Yeah, don't tell me things are alright:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/o...-1.6314122

This is ALREADY killing people.

I'm so fucking done with shit, I know people are tired, I'm tired too. But I don't care if you're tired, or that I'm tired, we're not literally dying of cancer because of anti-vaxxers.

A tax is the nicest thing I can think of right now.

There is so much more than can be done:

1) Kick people out of stores with dirty masks, or not wearing a mask, or wearing below the nose, mouth, etc. And charge them $100 to boot.
2) Shut down all public transit because hygiene is non-existent and mask enforcement is not followed, at all.
3) Shut washrooms at all public facilities because people are pigs and don't sanitize after wiping their dirty asshole. Alternatively, charge people $2 to use the washroom, so business can afford to have staff properly sanitize and ensure public safety of the facilities.
4) Mandatory glove and googles when out and about. People touch things everywhere they go - which have been infected by disgusting people with disgusting hygiene practices - and proceed to touch their eyes.
5) Mandatory education for all Canadian about hygiene, and proper diet and exercise.
6) Mandatory tax on anyone using the hospital with lifestyle co-morbid's.
7) Mandatory tax on anyone using the hospital with risk induced injuries.
8) Mandatory tax on anyone that hangs out with family and friends outside their household as long as we have covid.

You do that, then unlucky individuals who got cancer, covid, or any disease or injury not related to the above can receive first-class healthcare.

And, you do that, Covid will be conquered in this province.

You know, there's actually a whole world of options we could do between all those extreme measures you suggest and like, the nothing that we are doing now.

I mean, for starters, the vaccine could be mandatory for our school vaccination program--as many others are--instead of our CMOH spouting anti-vaxxer talking points at a fucking presser.

That's like, absolutely nothing, it wouldn't be even remotely controversial 10 years ago, literally I had a mandatory vaccination when I was in my early teens because of an outbreak, it wasn't even a thing.

We don't actually need the Combine soldiers patrolling the streets in order to do better...obviously that would be a bad thing. We need to have compassion for peoples struggles, but we also need to stop pandering to or treating with kid gloves the 3% of entitled assholes who are right now controlling the narrative.

Let's take the school vaccines, parents can come learn about the vaccine, distribute literature, have drs and nurses come in and talk about how it works, and how we know it's safe, as well as the dangers of getting COVID.

Then have a vaccine clinic.

Then have those who refuse the vaccine don't get to go to public school anymore, and their parents get checked up on to make sure they're actually doing homeschooling or an approved alternative, and if they're not, fine them.

Oh, and do this in fucking December when the vaccine was approved.

Oh, and also invest in masks and ventilation for all our classrooms (and because air quality fucking matters regardless of the pandemic), and enough staff to buffer people off sick and properly cohort classes, and enough sick days to ensure everyone can take time off, and rapid testing, and etc.

Use the carrot AND the stick AND the systemic solutions, instead of the nothing we are using now.

Do that, and we wouldn't have cancer patients dying waiting for life saving surgery and we can do it all without the gestapo.

Yeah, we'd still have 3% of assholes whining about the fact they're pressing their own boot into their own neck, but we shouldn't care about those morons...how to get social media (and regular media) to stop amplifying their shitty self-entitled stories...well...that's a harder problem, I don't have solutions to that one.
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Vaccines aren't actually mandatory for school...
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(01-14-2022, 02:06 PM)ac3r Wrote: Vaccines aren't actually mandatory for school...

Not for COVID-19, but other ones are.

Quote:The law
Unless they have a valid exemption, children who attend primary or secondary school must be immunized against:
  • diphtheria
  • tetanus
  • polio
  • measles
  • mumps
  • rubella
  • meningitis (meningococcal disease)
  • whooping cough (pertussis)
  • chickenpox (varicella) – required for children born in 2010 or later

As a parent, you must:
  • provide proof of your child’s immunization to your local public health unit
  • keep immunization information up to date

https://www.ontario.ca/page/vaccines-children-school
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Yes, but the exemptions are super easy to get. As that link mentions, students can be exempt for medical, religious or conscience reasons. The latter is what most anti-vax people use (or push onto their children) and to get that exemption, all one needs to do is watch a half hour YouTube video and fill out some forms. So, anyone who doesn't want a vaccine or to vaccinate their children can easily do so, so calling them mandatory is disingenuous when all you need to do is pretend you watched a video and sign some sheets that basically affirm: "yes I know my child could become a plague rat, but I don't care."

Thankfully most parents don't do this, so we rarely ever see outbreaks of diseases in school. I think the last major one in North America was an outbreak of measles in Minnesota a few years ago, primarily driven by the Somali community who live there. And well...Covid, but that's a whole new issue we're trying to fix.
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Wastewater testing shows COVID-19 may be 'starting to plateau' in Kitchener and Cambridge: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.6313897
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I was informed today that my appointment for my second cataract operation has been posponed till the end of February. It is annoying to have to walk around with one eye done and not the other, however, some people have had cancer surgery or hip replacement surgery postponed repeatedly, so I can't complain too much.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews....ry-11/amp/

I thought this was interesting. I wonder why they just decided to change their reporting? Seems like all the data given before was inflating numbers.

‘46% of current hospital admissions marked with covid, were admitted for other reasons, but just happened to test positive while in there’

Antivax - “I told you so!’
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Recall alert
A few weeks ago, I bought a box of 50 KN95 masks at Factory Direct. Today I discovered that there has been a recall on these since Nov 16, 2021 because they do not meet the standard. Here is the link: https://recalls-rappels.canada.ca/en/alert-recall/kn95
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(01-14-2022, 01:54 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: You know, there's actually a whole world of options we could do between all those extreme measures you suggest and like, the nothing that we are doing now.

I mean, for starters, the vaccine could be mandatory for our school vaccination program--as many others are--instead of our CMOH spouting anti-vaxxer talking points at a fucking presser.
[…]

Didn’t quote your entire message because it’s already right there on the page, but so much truth!

Thank you!
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(01-14-2022, 03:12 PM)ac3r Wrote: Yes, but the exemptions are super easy to get. As that link mentions, students can be exempt for medical, religious or conscience reasons. The latter is what most anti-vax people use (or push onto their children) and to get that exemption, all one needs to do is watch a half hour YouTube video and fill out some forms. So, anyone who doesn't want a vaccine or to vaccinate their children can easily do so, so calling them mandatory is disingenuous when all you need to do is pretend you watched a video and sign some sheets that basically affirm: "yes I know my child could become a plague rat, but I don't care."

Thankfully most parents don't do this, so we rarely ever see outbreaks of diseases in school. I think the last major one in North America was an outbreak of measles in Minnesota a few years ago, primarily driven by the Somali community who live there. And well...Covid, but that's a whole new issue we're trying to fix.

This obviously should be changed. Only medical exemptions (and, in principle but not in practice, religious/cultural exemptions) should be allowed; and the medical exemptions should be monitored closely to ensure that certain doctors don’t become exemption mills.

And yeah, the Covid vaccine should obviously be added to the school vaccine schedule.
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Why, though? There's enough immunity in our society to both prevent disease outbreaks for most pathogens (sans Covid-19) and grant people freedom to not vaccinate if they want. Unless you're against bodily autonomy...in which case those who want to ban abortions or force circumcision or things like gay/bisexual/pansexual conversion torture.

You lot need to look at it from a philosophical point of view - that is, that we grant as much freedom to individuals as possible because that is ethically just. Yeah the pandemic and getting sick is bad, but we can only do so much until we become ethically authoritarian. We have made it expensive and hard to smoke tobacco in public so we don't hurt others with second hand smoke for example, but we haven't outright banned tobacco because people still want to use it (and because we now know prohibition and our failed "war on drugs" does even more harm). If someone wants to fuck up their life, that's up to them...and indeed, it might hurt others, but they can still do it. Even if tobacco was illegal, people would still consume it.

I'm all for vaccinations and, as an Indigenous person, was well vaccinated before probably anyone on this forum and most people in this country. But at the same time I want to respect fundamental freedoms that make us who we are. Nor do I want to live in an authoritarian society where we force people to put things into their bodies or circumcise themselves. I know how messed up that can be considering white people tried to genocide us for being different. But thankfully, we reached a middle ground that let us exist in Canadian society whilst having our own autonomy. Freedom is a good thing. If we start throwing people in prison (as some nations are considering) then I want no part in Canada and you can all go back to where you came from, since this is all stolen land.

I'm not on the side of conspiracy theorists and reactionaries, but this is why they are freaking the hell out and putting gold stars on their clothing. The way people are acting now is completely insane.
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Herd immunity for measles requires 95% of the population to be immune so it doesn't take too many people to get outbreaks going again. Some more 'granola' areas in the US have fallen below the threshold and started seeing measles outbreaks again in recent years. This was, of course, back before Covid19 and when antivaxers were mostly hippies.
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