Micromobility (bikeshare, scootershare)

[ac3r]

All this bureaucracy for something so simple. "Should e-scooters be allowed to ride on streets?" "Yes." "Okay then."

I get they would need to write up some new bylaws but that's easy enough.

[cherrypark]

E-scooters are now allowed in Waterloo region.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.6499499

E-scooters can now legally zoom through Waterloo region.

As of Friday, the electric vehicles are allowed on select roads and pathways owned by the region and the main urban cities: Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo.

The major transportation change, supported by the Ontario Ministry of Transportation, is paving a way for a future rideshare system.

I would put the chances of helmet wearing and adhering to the no sidewalks rule as squarely zero but I suppose better than an outright ban for starters. As usual, does more to illuminate our poor non-vehicular infrastructure as much or more than it says anything about safe operation of a scooter.

[tomh009]

All this bureaucracy for something so simple. "Should e-scooters be allowed to ride on streets?" "Yes." "Okay then."

I get they would need to write up some new bylaws but that's easy enough.

That's because MTO sets the rules for the roads.

[timc]

I don't see this as a major change, since people have been using them for quite some time now, whether or not they were allowed.

[dtkvictim]

I've had an e-scooter for over a year, and didn't even consider that it wouldn't be allowed until coming across the WR Engage survey. I ride respectfully on shared trails, just as I would do with a bike. I don't really see any meaningful safety distinction between an e-scooter and a bike, or understand why the rules would be different.

I rarely use mine to be honest, but I've come across many dozens on the IHT as a pedestrian, and never had safety issues or concerning behaviour. The few (electric) mopeds that go through are much more concerning to me.

The Ministry of Transportation doesn't require people over the age of 18 to wear helmets on e-scooters, however the Region of Waterloo has made it mandatory for all riders to wear a helmet, regardless of age.

This is out of touch, making up rules without any real world consideration. However, is this something the Region can do? Could they, for example, mandate that all car drivers have to wear a helmet within the Region even if the MoT doesn't?

A rider is not allowed to carry any other passengers on board or carry cargo.

What exactly is meant by cargo here? Mine has a small hook that could maybe carry a single grocery bag. Is that breaking the rules? Absurd if so.

I would put the chances of helmet wearing and adhering to the no sidewalks rule as squarely zero but I suppose better than an outright ban for starters. As usual, does more to illuminate our poor non-vehicular infrastructure as much or more than it says anything about safe operation of a scooter.

Completely agree with that conclusion. I wouldn't count on too many scooters on the sidewalks though; it's almost unbearably unpleasant going over each and every crack with the tiny scooter wheels and 0 suspension.

[danbrotherston]

I've had an e-scooter for over a year, and didn't even consider that it wouldn't be allowed until coming across the WR Engage survey. I ride respectfully on shared trails, just as I would do with a bike. I don't really see any meaningful safety distinction between an e-scooter and a bike, or understand why the rules would be different.

I rarely use mine to be honest, but I've come across many dozens on the IHT as a pedestrian, and never had safety issues or concerning behaviour. The few (electric) mopeds that go through are much more concerning to me.

The Ministry of Transportation doesn't require people over the age of 18 to wear helmets on e-scooters, however the Region of Waterloo has made it mandatory for all riders to wear a helmet, regardless of age.

This is out of touch, making up rules without any real world consideration. However, is this something the Region can do? Could they, for example, mandate that all car drivers have to wear a helmet within the Region even if the MoT doesn't?

A rider is not allowed to carry any other passengers on board or carry cargo.

What exactly is meant by cargo here? Mine has a small hook that could maybe carry a single grocery bag. Is that breaking the rules? Absurd if so.

I would put the chances of helmet wearing and adhering to the no sidewalks rule as squarely zero but I suppose better than an outright ban for starters. As usual, does more to illuminate our poor non-vehicular infrastructure as much or more than it says anything about safe operation of a scooter.

Completely agree with that conclusion. I wouldn't count on too many scooters on the sidewalks though; it's almost unbearably unpleasant going over each and every crack with the tiny scooter wheels and 0 suspension.

Yeah...these kind of a nonsense rules (no-cargo is stupid. Bikes have "only as many people as the bike is built for, in theory child seats are illegal maybe?) are the kind of things which make me really lose faith in our government.

Rules which don't make sense and aren't enforced are bad, because they can be used for police abuses, but also just because they lead people to ignore the law.

Escooters here are also illegal AFAIK (it's murky I think) but throttled vehicles which do 45km/h (most of which are stinky noisy two stroke gas scooters and are often illegally unlimited and go 70km/h+) are permitted on bike trails if licensed and insured. This should be a very VERY easy decision to fix. But they don't...because plain ebikes (not the 45km/h scooters--some of which are bicycles) are not permitted to have throttles and e-scooters thus do not qualify under the same law as e-bikes (they can in fact, in theory be licensed under the 45km/h scooter category, but the manufacturer would have to do that I think).

But it's just insane, a very benign vehicle I see all the time is illegal and scooters which are disruptive if not dangerous in some circumstances are largely legal.

And this is in a country with largely sensible laws around these things---or...maybe I shouldn't say that I don't actually know if the laws really are sensible. The engineering is at least.

FWIW...I'm kind of interested in an electric escooter (not moped) kind of vehicle (they call them "step" here, which really makes the nomenclature less difficult), but as an immigrant, I'm less inclined to knowingly break the rules, even though by all accounts, it seems to be an accepted practice.

[bravado]

All of our infrastructure was designed to accommodate the unusual requirements of cars, so I am not really inclined to follow the rules that only maintain the status quo. Once you narrowly define something ("micromobility"), it loses all its power and ability to change. I find it notable that our cities are able and willing to mandate 30lb scooters, but can't do anything about the increasing size and danger of cars that seemingly has no limit. The rules that these committees come up with are only designed to make the impact to drivers as smooth as possible, not the other way around.

[ijmorlan]

All of our infrastructure was designed to accommodate the unusual requirements of cars, so I am not really inclined to follow the rules that only maintain the status quo. Once you narrowly define something ("micromobility"), it loses all its power and ability to change. I find it notable that our cities are able and willing to mandate 30lb scooters, but can't do anything about the increasing size and danger of cars that seemingly has no limit. The rules that these committees come up with are only designed to make the impact to drivers as smooth as possible, not the other way around.

I think part of it is that in the modern world, we assume that government has to be involved in everything, and certainly any new innovation must be permitted before it can be allowed to go ahead.

It’s the big and/or loud motor vehicles which are the problem, at least compared to a few scooters. We need to do something to reduce noise pollution from vehicles, especially “cool” (not cool) vehicles that are obviously specifically designed to make noise. Anybody who needs to feel manly can take care of their needs at home.

I was musing the other day of re-classifying some vehicles. The risk to others from driving a large pickup is obviously different from driving a compact car; maybe they should be in a higher license class. And the vehicles take up more space on the road and in parking lots; maybe registering them should cost more.

On the other hand, maybe gas prices will take care of the problem. I was reading in the newspaper in the last couple of days about somebody dramatically scaling back their road trip plans for the summer due to gas prices. The same will happen with all other forms of driving if prices stay high long enough that people expect them to stay high.

[bravado]

Maybe somebody knows more than me, but I certainly hope this is a solid program when it launches.

https://www.cambridgetoday.ca/local-news...ts-6794098

The Region of Waterloo along with the cities of Cambridge, Kitchener and Waterloo are entering into a partnership with Neuron Mobility to roll out e-bikes and e-scooters that can be rented for transportation in the city.

People will be able to access the vehicles through a membership, pay-per-use or time based fares.

The program is designed to help the region meet its goals of active transportation, climate action and providing a valuable service to the community.

The region's approved 2023 Grand River Transit Operating Budget includes anticipated revenue of $85,000 for micro-mobility integration, which will directly offset the budgeted program costs associated with administration, evaluation, operations, service expansion and public outreach.

A soft launch is expected to begin this month with a full service launch in early to mid May.

Anyone know anything about Neuron Mobility? It looks like they currently operate in Ottawa and are coming to Brampton soon.

I'm fairly curious so I downloaded the app, looks like the generic price is $1.15 to unlock a device and $0.35/minute.

There are also some passes:
3 days, 90 min/day - $9.42/day
7 days, 90 min/day - $5.33/day
30 days, 90 min/day - $3.35/day

https://www.rideneuron.com
https://www.rideneuron.com/vehicles/

[nms]

I don't know anything about this group, but I understand that other municipalities that have welcomed scooter rentals have designated parking spots for the scooters. If a user doesn't leave the scooter at this location, they cannot log out of their trip. This would hopefully prevent the habit of scooters being left in random spots.

[danbrotherston]

FWIW...those bikes appear the same as the bikeshare bikes that have been distributed all over town here in Amersfoort (we have a least 3-4 companies competing here). They seem to work well, the 2-3 times I've used them.

As for dock locations, I'm all in favour of docks, and in fact, they use use solar power to charge the bikes while docked...

But I know private companies hate them...and at least here, they work fine, there's bikes parked everywhere anyway, the shared bikes pose no more of a public obstacle than other bikes, and much less than cars...even here.

[dunkalunk]

Downloaded the app to see where I can go with these. It seems that the Iron Horse Trail between Victoria and the City of Waterloo border is missing, as well as the path going towards the transit hub, seems like a bizarre omission. But going through the roundabout at Ottawa and Homer Watson is totally OK.

[bravado]

There are a bunch of insanely stupid decisions in the Cambridge section too. There’s a paved trail under some power lines that connects to bike paths on both ends, yet it’s banned for these bikes. Why the fuck is it so mediocre here? I look forward to this project not being a big hit, and then the usual shitty crowd using it to prove that scooters and bikes aren't serious. Meanwhile, you can't ride a bike in A FUCKING PARK



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[bravado]

Downloaded the app to see where I can go with these. It seems that the Iron Horse Trail between Victoria and the City of Waterloo border is missing, as well as the path going towards the transit hub, seems like a bizarre omission. But going through the roundabout at Ottawa and Homer Watson is totally OK.

If you switch it to bike mode, you'll see that the Iron Horse Trail and Victoria Park are 100% banned for bikes - and speed limited for scooters.

[danbrotherston]

Yeah, I saw this on twitter. The ONLY thing here which surprises me is that a private for profit company was stupid enough to agree to this. Like...I think the meritocracy is a lie, I think mediocre people are in high level management positions all the time. But this is a step above...utterly idiotic.

For the region, I understand it. Our regional staff don't care about this being successful, they only care about appeasing all their loud stakeholders, and their loud stakeholders mostly only care about maintaining the status quo. So the IHT is banned because the accessibility committee opposed it because shared bikes and escooters are "dangerous" somehow in a way which regular bikes apparently aren't.

On a good day, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but this is just so idiotic, I really can't even.

What should have happened here, is the region should have made these stipulations and then they should have received zero bids on implementing this. My guess is that at the time it was agreed on, we were still in the position where there was so much money floating around that companies couldn't give it away, which is why stupidity like this happens. It would have been much better if no company had invested here because it would have forced staff to confront their bad planning.

But alas, was not to be.

So, instead we'll have a ton of bikes that nobody will ever use (because they're not allowed to use them) and then this failure will be used to say "see bike share isn't wanted here" instead of being forced to face the broken policy they setup.

But at the end of the day, this isn't even top 10 for problems in the region right now...hell, not even top 10 of transportation issues....which is why it's so depressing.