GGH Transportation and Growth Plan

[jeffster]

Both Dan and Creative are correct:

Frequency increases freedom.
Convenience increases freedom.

Part of the issue in KW (or, the tri-city) is that our street layout isn't transit friendly. Compared to places like Hamilton or Toronto or anything in Peel region that have a grid. It makes having good fast reliable transit difficult.

[ijmorlan]

I also explain this opinion on a later post. My example was based on taking one bus the entire trip with no transfers.

Everything Dan said, plus, you are still wrong, because even with a single-bus trip the total travel time includes a waiting time on average of one-half the headway. So changing the headway from 30 minutes to 10 reduces the average wait from 15 minutes to 5, a 10 minute savings (on average).

Now of course it’s not quite that simple because, especially at the longer headways, people tend to plan to catch a specific trip, rather than just going to the stop whenever and waiting, but the basic principle is still true.

[plam]

It's still true, though, that transit trips are basically always slower than car trips in many places. Certainly almost everywhere in North America, specifically including Montreal. Not that we shouldn't have more frequency. We absolutely should. But it doesn't make transit faster than cars, even if it does make transit faster.

Bicycle trips can be faster for those of us who can make them.

[ac3r]

Prioritized bus traffic signals and specific lanes would be a nice thing to have. This is common in cities around the world, particularly Europe where they don't have many cities that have a grid patter. It lets the buses flow a lot more freely through traffic.

[ijmorlan]

It's still true, though, that transit trips are basically always slower than car trips in many places. Certainly almost everywhere in North America, specifically including Montreal. Not that we shouldn't have more frequency. We absolutely should. But it doesn't make transit faster than cars, even if it does make transit faster.

This is true but the original point was that reducing headways would improve transit and make it more attractive, not that it would suddenly make transit faster than cars in every situation.

Also, remember that the investment in roads required to maintain car speed is enormous, and has poor economies of scale. Once a train system is in place, it can expand to carry a huge number of people without building more tracks, but a road keeps needing more lanes in order to maintain its speed with many people.

This is why busy downtowns are one place where transit often is faster than driving. Any trip that parallels the subway in Toronto is unlikely to be faster by car during rush hour! In a quite backwater like KW, there isn’t much traffic (regardless of what people might say), so most roads run pretty smoothly most of the time even without enormous numbers of lanes.

[KevinL]

Please also consider that the pure overall time of a trip is not the only factor; when you are driving, your focus must be on operating the vehicle, while a transit trip leaves you free to do other things with your time. If a transit trip takes ten minutes longer, but I get fifteen total minutes with my social media feed or a podcast or another experience that driving would leave me out of, I might consider the transit trip the better option.

[ac3r]

I always use my time on public transit to read a good book. In a car, I wouldn't be able to do anything.

[ijmorlan]

I always use my time on public transit to read a good book. In a car, I wouldn't be able to do anything.

How inefficient. True masters of time management know that they can do makeup, answer phone calls, and text their ticket lawyers while driving. Get with the program!

[ac3r]

And listen to music through their speaker phone or bluetooth speaker! Gotta be sure to annoy the entire LRV. Always important to be relaxed while you do so, by putting your feet up on the seats. GRT can just replace the upholstery, yeah?

[Bytor]

And listen to music through their speaker phone or bluetooth speaker! Gotta be sure to annoy the entire LRV. 

When I have encountered that on a bus, I would sit near them and say "Oh! Is it share your music day? Here's mine!" and play mine just as loud as they are.

Usually I get a sour look and they switch to their headphones, so I do the same. A few times over the years I've gotten a response like "Hey! I can't hear my music!" to which I say "Then maybe both of us should use our head phones?", or even "I don't want to listen to your crap!" to which I say "Likewise!"

[Acitta]

And listen to music through their speaker phone or bluetooth speaker! Gotta be sure to annoy the entire LRV. 

When I have encountered that on a bus, I would sit near them and say "Oh! Is it share your music day? Here's mine!" and play mine just as loud as they are.

Usually I get a sour look and they switch to their headphones, so I do the same. A few times over the years I've gotten a response like "Hey! I can't hear my music!" to which I say "Then maybe both of us should use our head phones?", or even "I don't want to listen to your crap!" to which I say "Likewise!"

I have been on a bus when I could hear the music of someone wearing headphones from several rows away.

[ijmorlan]

I have been on a bus when I could hear the music of someone wearing headphones from several rows away.

You could probably hear it better than they could. Ears can only take so much…

[nms]

For a flight of fancy, (via BlogTO) here is what someone guesses that provincial transportation could look like in 2070. Of particular interest, the creator added a couple heavy rail routes up the CN & CP line from Cambridge to Kitchener plus 4-5 LRT routes while extending the original Ion route up to Elmira.

Low res image

[High res image here] (I'm sorry that I've never figured out how to post photos in WRC)

Side note: how many of us here will be posting to WRC in 2070?

[ac3r]

Both Dan and Creative are correct:

Frequency increases freedom.
Convenience increases freedom.

Part of the issue in KW (or, the tri-city) is that our street layout isn't transit friendly. Compared to places like Hamilton or Toronto or anything in Peel region that have a grid. It makes having good fast reliable transit difficult.

This is definitely not true. Cities in Europe and Asia are full of streets that don't use a grid, but their transit systems feel as if they're from the distant future in comparison to ours. Our issue is that Grand River Transit just sucks.

Edit: Didn't realize this post was from 2021 haha...I just noticed this thread got bumped up to the top.

[neonjoe]

You are correct, North America is way behind, but in relative terms compared to the rest of NA GRT is quite successful for its ridership per capita for an urban area around half a million. Most places our size, especially in the states, only have a dozen or so bus routes with hourly headways. Transit here is substantially better in KW than in Cambridge and that’s just a function of Cambridge being completely disconnected and car centric.