Welcome Guest!
In order to take advantage of all the great features that Waterloo Region Connected has to offer, including participating in the lively discussions below, you're going to have to register. The good news is that it'll take less than a minute and you can get started enjoying Waterloo Region's best online community right away.
or Create an Account




Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Regional Budget
#1
I'm sure I'm just going to be stirring up a nest here...but it was in the news today.

Regional Libraries (which serve the townships directly and not the cities which are serviced by city libraries), saw a significant budget cut this year:

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...t-cut.html

This didn't even make news in the wake of the, in my opinion, insane decisions around childcare and the police budget.

What is regional council thinking!?
Reply


#2
(02-02-2021, 10:43 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: What is regional council thinking!?

I think the key point from the article is
Quote:The pandemic put pressure on the libraries’ finances, but led to changes that trimmed the library tax levy by 7.2 per cent, while still maintaining service, says Sheryl Tilley, manager of library services.

If they can provide equivalent service with less money I don't see the downside. Better matching library hours to demand, more virtual events, better use of development charges, etc don't seem like inherently unreasonable changes. Some branches did see longer hours under the changes, matching demand.

I think libraries are valuable, and I wouldn't want to see useful services cut, but doing the same things more efficiently is good.
Reply
#3
(02-02-2021, 04:11 PM)taylortbb Wrote:
(02-02-2021, 10:43 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: What is regional council thinking!?

I think the key point from the article is
Quote:The pandemic put pressure on the libraries’ finances, but led to changes that trimmed the library tax levy by 7.2 per cent, while still maintaining service, says Sheryl Tilley, manager of library services.

If they can provide equivalent service with less money I don't see the downside. Better matching library hours to demand, more virtual events, better use of development charges, etc don't seem like inherently unreasonable changes. Some branches did see longer hours under the changes, matching demand.

I think libraries are valuable, and I wouldn't want to see useful services cut, but doing the same things more efficiently is good.

I mean, leaving the optics of cutting libraries and childcare to fund more police aside....

I don't think for a second that cutting doesn't cost something. This belief about "efficiencies" is almost always an excuse for cutting services.  But I have zero doubt about people's willingness to tow the party line.

And this belief is backed up in the article:

"Staff were laid off when the library was shut last year, but the libraries have reopened with all 53 employees, economizing by not filling staff vacancies. Reduced travel costs as meetings go online and a reduction in library hours to focus on when demand is greatest have also produced savings."

Yes, you can call it "efficiencies" but there is no doubt that these are cuts.
Reply
#4
(02-02-2021, 04:18 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: "Staff were laid off when the library was shut last year, but the libraries have reopened with all 53 employees, economizing by not filling staff vacancies. Reduced travel costs as meetings go online and a reduction in library hours to focus on when demand is greatest have also produced savings."

Yes, you can call it "efficiencies" but there is no doubt that these are cuts.

Fewer hours sounds bad to me. It's not just about meeting peak demand.
Reply
#5
Waterloo Region looking at six per cent tax increase in early budget estimate: https://outline.com/Gd7EvG
Reply
#6
(02-02-2021, 10:43 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I'm sure I'm just going to be stirring up a nest here...but it was in the news today.

Regional Libraries (which serve the townships directly and not the cities which are serviced by city libraries), saw a significant budget cut this year:

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...t-cut.html

This didn't even make news in the wake of the, in my opinion, insane decisions around childcare and the police budget.

What is regional council thinking!?

No, you're not stirring the nest, you're just stating some facts. Nothing wrong with that.

It's a continual attack on those that are less fortunate -- and for those of use barely making it into middle class economy, just more stress we need to deal with.

Begs the question: has the region gotten so bad that we need a huge police budget? Are others so unimportant that we take away their only outlet for cultural enlightenment? Is it hard for us to help out low-income parents struggling with childcare expenses? I get we need to keep things under budget, but it appears at time that we're penny wise and pound foolish.
Reply
#7
(06-24-2021, 11:54 PM)jeffster Wrote: Begs the question: has the region gotten so bad that we need a huge police budget? Are others so unimportant that we take away their only outlet for cultural enlightenment? Is it hard for us to help out low-income parents struggling with childcare expenses? I get we need to keep things under budget, but it appears at time that we're penny wise and pound foolish.

I think the police budget should be reallocated to non police social services. However that takes a pretty huge fight to implement due to provincial legislation: the police force proposes a budget and then regional council has to vote it down and go to arbitration...
Reply


#8
(06-25-2021, 04:51 PM)plam Wrote:
(06-24-2021, 11:54 PM)jeffster Wrote: Begs the question: has the region gotten so bad that we need a huge police budget? Are others so unimportant that we take away their only outlet for cultural enlightenment? Is it hard for us to help out low-income parents struggling with childcare expenses? I get we need to keep things under budget, but it appears at time that we're penny wise and pound foolish.

I think the police budget should be reallocated to non police social services. However that takes a pretty huge fight to implement due to provincial legislation: the police force proposes a budget and then regional council has to vote it down and go to arbitration...

Yes, council has used this boogieman for years.

But I'd have much more respect for my council if they fought and lost, rather than giving up and voting FOR a budget they claim to disagree with.

But even more, if they really feel the system is problematic, they actually have to vote against the budget in order to change anything, even the system. Right now, they are voting for it, if they went to the province and said "hey, this process doesn't work" the province would say..."why did you vote for it then?"

I suspect the REAL reason is that if they voted against it, even if a majority voted against it, they would lose at arbitration because certain councillors would go and testify FOR an infinitely bloating police budget. We have some hardcore pro-police neocons on council.

Frankly, the police budget is quickly becoming my second biggest source of anger in the budget. The irony is people who pretend to be fiscally conservatives never object..."fiscal conservatism" might as well be a word in new speak.
Reply
#9
(06-25-2021, 06:20 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(06-25-2021, 04:51 PM)plam Wrote: I think the police budget should be reallocated to non police social services. However that takes a pretty huge fight to implement due to provincial legislation: the police force proposes a budget and then regional council has to vote it down and go to arbitration...

Yes, council has used this boogieman for years.

But I'd have much more respect for my council if they fought and lost, rather than giving up and voting FOR a budget they claim to disagree with.

But even more, if they really feel the system is problematic, they actually have to vote against the budget in order to change anything, even the system. Right now, they are voting for it, if they went to the province and said "hey, this process doesn't work" the province would say..."why did you vote for it then?"

I suspect the REAL reason is that if they voted against it, even if a majority voted against it, they would lose at arbitration because certain councillors would go and testify FOR an infinitely bloating police budget. We have some hardcore pro-police neocons on council.

Frankly, the police budget is quickly becoming my second biggest source of anger in the budget. The irony is people who pretend to be fiscally conservatives never object..."fiscal conservatism" might as well be a word in new speak.

Yes. To clarify, I think that the region really should engage in this fight. I just want to point out that it's actually hard.
Reply
#10
(06-25-2021, 04:51 PM)plam Wrote:
(06-24-2021, 11:54 PM)jeffster Wrote: Begs the question: has the region gotten so bad that we need a huge police budget? Are others so unimportant that we take away their only outlet for cultural enlightenment? Is it hard for us to help out low-income parents struggling with childcare expenses? I get we need to keep things under budget, but it appears at time that we're penny wise and pound foolish.

I think the police budget should be reallocated to non police social services. However that takes a pretty huge fight to implement due to provincial legislation: the police force proposes a budget and then regional council has to vote it down and go to arbitration...

Shocking. If the province wants to force each city to pay for policing, it should just do it itself.

Otherwise, each municipality should decide how much it wants. If it decides to suddenly cut the budget by 50%, then that’s what happens (subject to labour law etc., but that’s no different from suddenly chopping anything else the Region does by 50%).

While policing is in fact essential, the amount that is spent on it and how it is allocated is a legitimate subject for actual political debate. And there is nothing special about policing that makes the chief or the police board better positioned to determine what the budget should be than the politicians. Imagine if the transportation (roads) department worked this way. Hmmm, on the other hand, imagine if transit worked this way…
Reply
#11
(06-25-2021, 07:26 PM)plam Wrote:
(06-25-2021, 06:20 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Yes, council has used this boogieman for years.

But I'd have much more respect for my council if they fought and lost, rather than giving up and voting FOR a budget they claim to disagree with.

But even more, if they really feel the system is problematic, they actually have to vote against the budget in order to change anything, even the system. Right now, they are voting for it, if they went to the province and said "hey, this process doesn't work" the province would say..."why did you vote for it then?"

I suspect the REAL reason is that if they voted against it, even if a majority voted against it, they would lose at arbitration because certain councillors would go and testify FOR an infinitely bloating police budget. We have some hardcore pro-police neocons on council.

Frankly, the police budget is quickly becoming my second biggest source of anger in the budget. The irony is people who pretend to be fiscally conservatives never object..."fiscal conservatism" might as well be a word in new speak.

Yes. To clarify, I think that the region really should engage in this fight. I just want to point out that it's actually hard.

I have to wonder, with 10 officers being voted out of the schools, shouldn't this save some money? I am not sure how much these officers make, but I am guessing it's close to $100K + benefits (OMERS, health, CPP, EI, coffee and donut money, etc). That should be close to $1.3M.

Though that doesn't seem like a lot, based on a close to a quarter billion dollar budget.
Reply
#12
$1.3M (and it's quite possibly more than that) could make a significant addition to the budget of a local social services agency.
Reply
« Next Oldest | Next Newest »



Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

About Waterloo Region Connected

Launched in August 2014, Waterloo Region Connected is an online community that brings together all the things that make Waterloo Region great. Waterloo Region Connected provides user-driven content fueled by a lively discussion forum covering topics like urban development, transportation projects, heritage issues, businesses and other issues of interest to those in Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge and the four Townships - North Dumfries, Wellesley, Wilmot, and Woolwich.

              User Links