Highway 7 - Kitchener to Guelph

[ac3r]

New Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph seemingly snubbed again by province: https://kitchener.citynews.ca/local-news...ce-5158523

Surprise surprise...

[ac3r]

Or, run it from Guelph down through Campbellville/Waterdown to Hamilton.

Yes please. The lack of GKW to Hamilton link by any of GO modes continues to baffle me. Unless I'm missing something on demand, I can't see why people wouldn't have a potential benefit to commute between those hubs via transit. Especially with airports at both ends.

It would be nice. I'd even settle for GO buses. I guess Greyhound only officially ceased Canadian operations in 2021 so it'll take a while to catch up, but with the glacial pace Metrolinx and this province operate at, it'll take a very long time for anything connecting Waterloo Region to Hamilton.

Which actually sucks. I've been trying to complete an architectural research project to create an exhibition on the industrial history of Hamilton, but I have no way there unless I go to Toronto first. :'(

[danbrotherston]

Yes please. The lack of GKW to Hamilton link by any of GO modes continues to baffle me. Unless I'm missing something on demand, I can't see why people wouldn't have a potential benefit to commute between those hubs via transit. Especially with airports at both ends.

It would be nice. I'd even settle for GO buses. I guess Greyhound only officially ceased Canadian operations in 2021 so it'll take a while to catch up, but with the glacial pace Metrolinx and this province operate at, it'll take a very long time for anything connecting Waterloo Region to Hamilton.

Which actually sucks. I've been trying to complete an architectural research project to create an exhibition on the industrial history of Hamilton, but I have no way there unless I go to Toronto first. :'(

AFAIK literally nobody in power, at Metrolinx OR locally is even asking or lobbying for this.

[cherrypark]

It would be nice. I'd even settle for GO buses. I guess Greyhound only officially ceased Canadian operations in 2021 so it'll take a while to catch up, but with the glacial pace Metrolinx and this province operate at, it'll take a very long time for anything connecting Waterloo Region to Hamilton.

Which actually sucks. I've been trying to complete an architectural research project to create an exhibition on the industrial history of Hamilton, but I have no way there unless I go to Toronto first. :'(

AFAIK literally nobody in power, at Metrolinx OR locally is even asking or lobbying for this.

You would think the level of traffic on Highway 6 and the grow-out of Waterdown would be indicator enough there is a demand. I can't count the number of times I've driven to Aldershot to go Lakeshore West into Union to catch the VIA or driven on to a destination in downtown Hamilton/Stoney Creek.

[danbrotherston]

AFAIK literally nobody in power, at Metrolinx OR locally is even asking or lobbying for this.

You would think the level of traffic on Highway 6 and the grow-out of Waterdown would be indicator enough there is a demand. I can't count the number of times I've driven to Aldershot to go Lakeshore West into Union to catch the VIA or driven on to a destination in downtown Hamilton/Stoney Creek.

Yeah, you'd think, but it seems that our leaders rarely think about transit as a solution to transportation.

[timio]

New Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph seemingly snubbed again by province: https://kitchener.citynews.ca/local-news...ce-5158523

Surprise surprise...

When you [general Ontario population, not specifically you individually] elect a Dumpster Fire government, what do you expect?

[ac3r]

I stopped expecting anything from this province. :'P

[ijmorlan]

You would think the level of traffic on Highway 6 and the grow-out of Waterdown would be indicator enough there is a demand. I can't count the number of times I've driven to Aldershot to go Lakeshore West into Union to catch the VIA or driven on to a destination in downtown Hamilton/Stoney Creek.

No, no, no, you don’t get it. The only thing that traffic ever indicates is that there aren’t enough lanes!

[jeffster]

New Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph seemingly snubbed again by province: https://kitchener.citynews.ca/local-news...ce-5158523

Surprise surprise...

When you [general Ontario population, not specifically you individually] elect a Dumpster Fire government, what do you expect?

Ah, but it's been going on for years, through different parties. The only one not given a kick at the can are the Greens, and they'd certainly not do it.

This will be an election promise, just like the last 10 elections.

[danbrotherston]

When you [general Ontario population, not specifically you individually] elect a Dumpster Fire government, what do you expect?

Ah, but it's been going on for years, through different parties. The only one not given a kick at the can are the Greens, and they'd certainly not do it.

This will be an election promise, just like the last 10 elections.

I mean, the Liberals kicked the can down the road for decades, but they *WERE* moving on it before they lost the election.

They were also moving on 2WAD GO, which has also stalled.

[jamincan]

Has 2WAD stalled? They are making progress on grade separation at the Silver Junction which is what is limiting further frequencies to the best of my knowledge.

[danbrotherston]

Has 2WAD stalled? They are making progress on grade separation at the Silver Junction which is what is limiting further frequencies to the best of my knowledge.

There was an article earlier about how 2WAD was not a priority for the government.

And more, I still see no realistic plan for 2WAD GO...incremental improvements are being made, but I've seen no major plans which would enable 2WAD.

[Bytor]

Has 2WAD stalled? They are making progress on grade separation at the Silver Junction which is what is limiting further frequencies to the best of my knowledge.

Pretty much, for the past 4 years. Beyond a couple of inconvenient middle of teh day trips and minor, incremental speed improvements due to bringing the tracks back into a (sort of) state of good repair, nothing much has been done on the Kitchener line outside of Toronto proper.

In December 2018, anout 6 months after the election, then Transport Minister David Yurek told us to wait for "12 to 18 months" for some big news. But that never materialised.

The Big issue for #2WADGO to Kitchener is the bottleneck between Bramalea and Georgetown where there simply aren't enough tracks to accommodate both hourly or better service to Kitchener and all the freight that passes through there. The Wynne government was in talks with CN for a bypass link from Bramalea down to Milton, and CN had reportedly given an unofficial "OK" after confirming that their signalling equipment would work in the hydro corridor, but the Ford government killed that off, claiming that they would work with CN to make #2WADGO happen sooner than the Wynne Liberals had promised.

Since then the Ford government has sometimes alluded to getting permission from CN to build extra tracks in the B/G section and reduce contention. Other times they alluded to simply cooperating more closely on scheduling to make it happen. However, there have not been any announcements bout either, no contracts (not even any RFQs) to build the extra tracks necessary through that bottleneck to makes #2WADGO as promised actually happen.

[jamincan]

The March 2021 Preliminary Design Business Case for 2WAD service to Kitchener outlined two options [1], but did not recommend one approach over the other. The first, cheaper one requires only improvements to the line and the addition of passing tracks and second platforms at select stations. Work on these improvements was taking place last year and I expect we will see work continue this year. The second option involves a rail-rail grade separation east of Georgetown allowing Kitchener Line and CN traffic to cross without interfering. This would allow greater operational flexibility and reduce travel times for Kitchener-Union trips from the 98 minutes under the first option to 90 minutes with the grade separation. Metrolinx has just recently announced notice of expropriation of land along the Halton Subdivision [2] where the Silver Junction grade separation would be, which, while not evidence of proceeding with Option 2, is at least evidence that they are keeping that option available.

It seems to me that they have the business case outlining what is needed for 2WAD service, and that we have seen progress on that front this past year, so I think that we have enough evidence to allow some measure of optimism.

1. https://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalpla...-FINAL.pdf
2. https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/go...st-1798499

The PDBC is an interesting read, but I thought it is important to point out that even with Option 1, which has no grade separation at Silver Junction, Metrolinx would be able to provide hourly 2WAD service as well as 30-min peak service to Toronto in AM and from Toronto in PM. The second option just allows greater operational flexibility and speed.

[plam]

The March 2021 Preliminary Design Business Case for 2WAD service to Kitchener outlined two options [1], but did not recommend one approach over the other. The first, cheaper one requires only improvements to the line and the addition of passing tracks and second platforms at select stations. Work on these improvements was taking place last year and I expect we will see work continue this year. The second option involves a rail-rail grade separation east of Georgetown allowing Kitchener Line and CN traffic to cross without interfering. This would allow greater operational flexibility and reduce travel times for Kitchener-Union trips from the 98 minutes under the first option to 90 minutes with the grade separation. Metrolinx has just recently announced notice of expropriation of land along the Halton Subdivision [2] where the Silver Junction grade separation would be, which, while not evidence of proceeding with Option 2, is at least evidence that they are keeping that option available.

It seems to me that they have the business case outlining what is needed for 2WAD service, and that we have seen progress on that front this past year, so I think that we have enough evidence to allow some measure of optimism.

1. https://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalpla...-FINAL.pdf
2. https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/go...st-1798499

The PDBC is an interesting read, but I thought it is important to point out that even with Option 1, which has no grade separation at Silver Junction, Metrolinx would be able to provide hourly 2WAD service as well as 30-min peak service to Toronto in AM and from Toronto in PM. The second option just allows greater operational flexibility and speed.

Yeah, I'm a bit more optimistic than Bytor. The GO running time is now 1h43 = 103 minutes, which is the same as the old VIA time. (VIA now runs in 1h34 but there's now only 1 service a day). 90 minutes would be pretty good indeed.