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+--- Thread: Grand River Transit (/showthread.php?tid=13)
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RE: Grand River Transit - KevinL - 07-22-2024
As the article indicates, nobody's talking about it because there was no official announcement. A transit advocate happened to see the court decision on it and made that public; Metrolinx has said nothing on the matter themselves.
RE: Grand River Transit - danbrotherston - 07-22-2024
(07-22-2024, 02:35 PM)westwardloo Wrote:(07-22-2024, 02:05 PM)the_conestoga_guy Wrote: KW is spoiled for news today!
This is a massive win for our Region because it solves the biggest bottleneck in finally getting hourly (or better) 2WAD service. This, plus all of the passing tracks that are in construction, is shaping up to be some decent service!
Hopefully this project can be timed so that it's done around the same time as the new Central station.
This is actually huge news! Surprised more people aren't talking about this. This is a necessary step in getting 2WAD service to Guelph and KW, I suspect this will result in 15-20min service levels once constructed. Although, this fly over will probably take 3-5 years to design and build unfortunately. I suspect since they had to expropriate the land they were hoping to have this done sooner, but now is better than never.
If we could get an announcement about the Provinces commitment to HWY 7 and the Breslau GO this could easily be the biggest week in News for the Region haha
I agree this news is good, and that it moves forward 2WAD GO to the region.
What I disagree with is the suggested frequencies.
We've seen nothing anywhere at all that would suggest 30 minute service all day...
And 15-20 minute service is 100% impossible on the line without significant extra work with Metrolinx has explicitly stated that it won't do. They are not twinning the line, which would be necessary for reliable 15 minute service, instead they are going with the cheaper option of building bypass tracks that can enable hourly (and maybe half hourly in the best case) service.
And honestly, I think that's really fine, hourly service with a half hourly peak service would be absolutely game changing, and probably more than enough service that it makes sense to make other improvements (e.g., faster trains) the new low hanging fruit.
RE: Grand River Transit - panamaniac - 07-22-2024
(07-22-2024, 02:35 PM)westwardloo Wrote:(07-22-2024, 02:05 PM)the_conestoga_guy Wrote: KW is spoiled for news today!
This is a massive win for our Region because it solves the biggest bottleneck in finally getting hourly (or better) 2WAD service. This, plus all of the passing tracks that are in construction, is shaping up to be some decent service!
Hopefully this project can be timed so that it's done around the same time as the new Central station.
This is actually huge news! Surprised more people aren't talking about this. This is a necessary step in getting 2WAD service to Guelph and KW, I suspect this will result in 15-20min service levels once constructed. Although, this fly over will probably take 3-5 years to design and build unfortunately. I suspect since they had to expropriate the land they were hoping to have this done sooner, but now is better than never.
If we could get an announcement about the Provinces commitment to HWY 7 and the Breslau GO this could easily be the biggest week in News for the Region haha
For that one you'll probably have to wait for the next provincial election campaign ....
RE: Grand River Transit - ijmorlan - 07-22-2024
(07-22-2024, 06:53 PM)panamaniac Wrote:(07-22-2024, 02:35 PM)westwardloo Wrote: If we could get an announcement about the Provinces commitment to HWY 7 and the Breslau GO this could easily be the biggest week in News for the Region haha
For that one you'll probably have to wait for the next provincial election campaign ....
I’ve been seeing YouTube ads about building Highway 7. I don’t typically watch past the “skip” so I’m not sure what their overall message is. But I agree, the next election is likely to bring more progress. I just wish they would build the actually-useful link roads under the railway.
RE: Grand River Transit - coriander - 07-22-2024
(07-22-2024, 02:55 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:(07-22-2024, 02:35 PM)westwardloo Wrote: This is actually huge news! Surprised more people aren't talking about this. This is a necessary step in getting 2WAD service to Guelph and KW, I suspect this will result in 15-20min service levels once constructed. Although, this fly over will probably take 3-5 years to design and build unfortunately. I suspect since they had to expropriate the land they were hoping to have this done sooner, but now is better than never.
If we could get an announcement about the Provinces commitment to HWY 7 and the Breslau GO this could easily be the biggest week in News for the Region haha
I agree this news is good, and that it moves forward 2WAD GO to the region.
What I disagree with is the suggested frequencies.
We've seen nothing anywhere at all that would suggest 30 minute service all day...
And 15-20 minute service is 100% impossible on the line without significant extra work with Metrolinx has explicitly stated that it won't do. They are not twinning the line, which would be necessary for reliable 15 minute service, instead they are going with the cheaper option of building bypass tracks that can enable hourly (and maybe half hourly in the best case) service.
And honestly, I think that's really fine, hourly service with a half hourly peak service would be absolutely game changing, and probably more than enough service that it makes sense to make other improvements (e.g., faster trains) the new low hanging fruit.
OK, you're right. I had misremembered some things. The PDBC doesn't even have 2tph in both directions even at peak hour. I guess it makes sense, with passing tracks only at 10-15 minute intervals. At the same time, with some more passing loops, good scheduling discipline, and probably better train performance (our giant loco-hauled trains are truly sluggish), I think a lot more service could be extracted out of the one track. Railways abroad tend to be more conservative on infrastructure demands for the same level of service compared to America, it seems. For the future, it doesn't seem outrageous to imagine a mostly double-tracked line with several bottlenecks in the future; capacity of the corridor definitely has room to grow.
To be honest, I got bamboozled by the Government's advertisements talking about 15 minute service to Kitchener, as well as the whole 30 minute 2WAD regional campaigning.
RE: Grand River Transit - SF22 - 07-23-2024
(07-22-2024, 10:11 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:(07-22-2024, 06:53 PM)panamaniac Wrote: For that one you'll probably have to wait for the next provincial election campaign ....
I’ve been seeing YouTube ads about building Highway 7. I don’t typically watch past the “skip” so I’m not sure what their overall message is. But I agree, the next election is likely to bring more progress. I just wish they would build the actually-useful link roads under the railway.
There is active progress happening on this project. The Frederick St bridge has been undergoing prep work since the spring, in advance of demolition. They're rerouting things like Bell lines and other utilities currently. I drive over the bridge daily, and there are almost always construction workers somewhere in the area, working on both sides of the bridge.
It has to come down and get rebuilt longer so that it can properly accommodate all the highway lanes underneath that will get redesigned as part of the interchange structure at the west end of the new highway 7. There is a website posted by the Ontario government with some rough details: https://www.frederickstreetbridge.com/
RE: Grand River Transit - Rainrider22 - 07-23-2024
Oh boy, I didn't realize they have to replace the bridge. That should be some good times when it is taken out of commission. Hopefully they can do it in a expeditious manner
RE: Grand River Transit - SF22 - 07-23-2024
(07-23-2024, 10:09 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Oh boy, I didn't realize they have to replace the bridge. That should be some good times when it is taken out of commission. Hopefully they can do it in a expeditious manner
I'm pretty sure it's going to come down over the course of one or two days on a weekend, and then take the better part of a year to get rebuilt and put into commission, so. There's that.
RE: Grand River Transit - westwardloo - 07-23-2024
(07-22-2024, 02:55 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I agree this news is good, and that it moves forward 2WAD GO to the region.
What I disagree with is the suggested frequencies.
We've seen nothing anywhere at all that would suggest 30 minute service all day...
And 15-20 minute service is 100% impossible on the line without significant extra work with Metrolinx has explicitly stated that it won't do. They are not twinning the line, which would be necessary for reliable 15 minute service, instead they are going with the cheaper option of building bypass tracks that can enable hourly (and maybe half hourly in the best case) service.
And honestly, I think that's really fine, hourly service with a half hourly peak service would be absolutely game changing, and probably more than enough service that it makes sense to make other improvements (e.g., faster trains) the new low hanging fruit.
While I agree as currently designed, they will probably only provide 30min peak service, they are definitively building the overpass to easily accommodate increase in service without having to coordinate scheduling with freight. Part of Metrolinx argument for expropriation specifically highlights 15min service between kitchener and Union.
RE: Grand River Transit - danbrotherston - 07-23-2024
(07-23-2024, 11:13 AM)westwardloo Wrote:(07-22-2024, 02:55 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I agree this news is good, and that it moves forward 2WAD GO to the region.
What I disagree with is the suggested frequencies.
We've seen nothing anywhere at all that would suggest 30 minute service all day...
And 15-20 minute service is 100% impossible on the line without significant extra work with Metrolinx has explicitly stated that it won't do. They are not twinning the line, which would be necessary for reliable 15 minute service, instead they are going with the cheaper option of building bypass tracks that can enable hourly (and maybe half hourly in the best case) service.
And honestly, I think that's really fine, hourly service with a half hourly peak service would be absolutely game changing, and probably more than enough service that it makes sense to make other improvements (e.g., faster trains) the new low hanging fruit.
While I agree as currently designed, they will probably only provide 30min peak service, they are definitively building the overpass to easily accommodate increase in service without having to coordinate scheduling with freight. Part of Metrolinx argument for expropriation specifically highlights 15min service between kitchener and Union.
I don't know where the image you quoted is from, but it's at best misleading. The Kitchener line can support 15 minute service to ... I dunno...probably Georgetown. But west of that, into Kitchener, there is only a single line, and Metrolinx is adding bypass tracks, that isn't enough to support 15 minute bi-directional service. The overpass isn't the limiting factor.
RE: Grand River Transit - danbrotherston - 07-23-2024
(07-23-2024, 10:48 AM)SF22 Wrote:(07-23-2024, 10:09 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Oh boy, I didn't realize they have to replace the bridge. That should be some good times when it is taken out of commission. Hopefully they can do it in a expeditious manner
I'm pretty sure it's going to come down over the course of one or two days on a weekend, and then take the better part of a year to get rebuilt and put into commission, so. There's that.
FWIW...the bridge is in need of replacement anyway. They added the concrete walls (and crowded the fuck out of the sidewalk) as a stopgap because of deficiencies in the bridge...
RE: Grand River Transit - cherrypark - 07-23-2024
Yes but if you build a new fly-over without that capacity then you have both that and the current sections that can't support it to update. Doesn't mean its coming soon but does mean that new infra will not quickly become a new bottleneck (at least...)
RE: Grand River Transit - SF22 - 07-23-2024
(07-23-2024, 12:32 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:(07-23-2024, 10:48 AM)SF22 Wrote: I'm pretty sure it's going to come down over the course of one or two days on a weekend, and then take the better part of a year to get rebuilt and put into commission, so. There's that.
FWIW...the bridge is in need of replacement anyway. They added the concrete walls (and crowded the fuck out of the sidewalk) as a stopgap because of deficiencies in the bridge...
The jersey walls went in 8+ years ago, and I think they were 'temporary' until Highway 7 moved forward, but then the Cons delayed the highway when they came into power and it took them a few years to start the ball rolling again, and the Frederick St bridge just deteriorated further. At least they widened the sidewalks after a few years so you could get a stroller through there, but it was at the expense of the painted bike lanes on the bridge.
RE: Grand River Transit - ijmorlan - 07-23-2024
(07-23-2024, 10:09 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Oh boy, I didn't realize they have to replace the bridge. That should be some good times when it is taken out of commission. Hopefully they can do it in a expeditious manner
It shouldn’t be worse than when Victoria was replaced a few years ago.
RE: Grand River Transit - westwardloo - 07-23-2024
[quote pid="115713" dateline="1721752293"]
I don't know where the image you quoted is from, but it's at best misleading. The Kitchener line can support 15 minute service to ... I dunno...probably Georgetown. But west of that, into Kitchener, there is only a single line, and Metrolinx is adding bypass tracks, that isn't enough to support 15 minute bi-directional service. The overpass isn't the limiting factor.
[/quote]
This was directly from metrolinx case presented to the courts to justify the expropriation. It is not misleading it clearly states 15min services between kitchener and union. It doesn’t say 15min service on the kitchener line.
Passing tracks can be added in the future to accommodate 15min service. The point is although its not on the table right now. Metrolix is definitely planning for it in the future. Which is a good thing.