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Dundee Secondary Plan (City of Kitchener)
#1
This is the last Secondary Plan for the City of Kitchener that covers greenfield areas (provided the province doesn't meddle again). In this case the plan covers the area bound by Fischer Hallman to the west, New Dundee Rd to the south, Reidel Dr to the east and the Wallaceton subdivision to the north.

The lands that this Secondary Plan will cover is owned almost entirely by Activa (737.5 acres), lands in the secondary plan are also owned by Branthaven and Schlegel in the realm of 150 acres each. There's a section of land that I don't know who owns but it's likely Activa. With it being Activa there will be low density like any subdivision but they've been recently pushing for higher densities which is certainly reflected in the concepts.

As of right now the City is only at the PIC 2 stage of the project so things are still subject to change but they are targeting a density of 84 ppj/ha which is a higher target density than the Block Line MTSA (80 ppj/ha). The intent of the secondary plan is to guide subdivision plans but for the most part there are already concepts which have been floated between the developers and the Region/City so it's generally known that there will be SWM ponds along New Dundee Rd and Fischer-Hallman with a few scattered throughout the rest of the subdivision.

The city will continue in a similar vein to previous secondary plans like Rosenberg to promote the development of an urban corridor along the arterial roads in the area (Strasburg Rd Extension, Blair Creek Dr Extension), these corridors are intended to have mixed-use, med-high density. Given the intended locations of the corridors future development will likely be similar in scale to 1198 and 1340 Fischer Hallman.

What will be different in this case is the intent for a secondary Urban Core area. This is going to be a major feature of Kitchener 2051 when the draft comes out later this year. Within these Urban Core areas the city is effectively intending for mixed use development intended for 15 minute cities. Likewise there are going to be various Nodes throughout the area which have similar intents just smaller scales.

Right now there is the option for public comment on the draft land use plans which I will include below. Here's the Engage link: Dundee Secondary Plan: Subwatershed, Transportation and Land Use Study | EngageWR

Draft Plan Legend
   

Draft Plan A
   

Draft Plan B
   

Concept for Nodes (This is a model from Kitchener 2051 showing Ottawa/Lackner):
   

Concept for Urban Core area (This is a model from Kitchener 2051 showing Ottawa/River):
   
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#2
We are obsessed with building up. Condo market has spoken and people dont want shoe boxes. (Up to 3/4 story in a tasteful manner is okay as there is still interaction with streetscape at those heights, but not high rises).

How much land has been freed up for us to build outwards rather than upwards?
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#3
I find it incomprehensible that somebody doesn’t know about the costs of sprawl in 2025.
local cambridge weirdo
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#4
(08-12-2025, 09:53 AM)Momo26 Wrote: We are obsessed with building up. Condo market has spoken and people dont want shoe boxes. (Up to 3/4 story in a tasteful manner is okay as there is still interaction with streetscape at those heights, but not high rises).

How much land has been freed up for us to build outwards rather than upwards?

KW fundamentally can't build out, this section is the last area of KW for sprawl it needs to be dense. If we build beyond that we are severely encroaching on the recharge area of our groundwater aquifer. Which we are already encroaching on in Rosenberg.

If we build on that aquifer recharge area we are risking severe contamination from salt and all the other garbage that leaks into the ground. This means that your aquifer is then gone. Not to mention more impervious surfaces decreases the amount of infiltration which reduces the amount of water in the aquifer so then you have less water to serve even more people.

KW is already going to require a water pipe to Lake Erie or Ontario in and around 2050 given projected demand levels. If you screw with the aquifer you're going to need more at an even larger capital cost. Not to mention sprawl is useless when it comes to the tax base, the infrastructure cost alone is astronomical to maintain with low rise sprawl. You need density or significantly higher taxes, we already know we aren't getting the later. So you can only have density. Whether you like it or not KW is going to get more dense because we fundamentally can't expand out.
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#5
(08-12-2025, 12:19 PM)ZEBuilder Wrote:
(08-12-2025, 09:53 AM)Momo26 Wrote: We are obsessed with building up. Condo market has spoken and people dont want shoe boxes. (Up to 3/4 story in a tasteful manner is okay as there is still interaction with streetscape at those heights, but not high rises).

How much land has been freed up for us to build outwards rather than upwards?

KW fundamentally can't build out, this section is the last area of KW for sprawl it needs to be dense. If we build beyond that we are severely encroaching on the recharge area of our groundwater aquifer. Which we are already encroaching on in Rosenberg.

If we build on that aquifer recharge area we are risking severe contamination from salt and all the other garbage that leaks into the ground. This means that your aquifer is then gone. Not to mention more impervious surfaces decreases the amount of infiltration which reduces the amount of water in the aquifer so then you have less water to serve even more people.

KW is already going to require a water pipe to Lake Erie or Ontario in and around 2050 given projected demand levels. If you screw with the aquifer you're going to need more at an even larger capital cost. Not to mention sprawl is useless when it comes to the tax base, the infrastructure cost alone is astronomical to maintain with low rise sprawl. You need density or significantly higher taxes, we already know we aren't getting the later. So you can only have density. Whether you like it or not KW is going to get more dense because we fundamentally can't expand out.

Giving the OP a bit of the benefit of the doubt here, I've read that mid-rise density can actually get pretty far in terms of providing housing, which they did allude to in that post. Maybe we have a bunch more 6 storey housing.
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#6
(08-12-2025, 09:53 AM)Momo26 Wrote: We are obsessed with building up. Condo market has spoken and people dont want shoe boxes. (Up to 3/4 story in a tasteful manner is okay as there is still interaction with streetscape at those heights, but not high rises).

How much land has been freed up for us to build outwards rather than upwards?

Building forms in between the two extremes is our biggest issue. Both in builder/buyer preferences as well as the constraints from zoning and building codes.

 There are so many examples around the world of denser low to mid-rise that can work provided the rest of the development can be done right to not be a sea of asphalt and concrete for cars without walkability.
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#7
(08-12-2025, 09:53 AM)Momo26 Wrote: We are obsessed with building up. Condo market has spoken and people dont want shoe boxes to buy tiny condo units as "investments" any more.

Fixed that for you.
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