GO Transit

[Bytor]

Also, let us not forget that 3 years ago last month the Ford government explicitly voted against a clear timeline and funding commitment for #2WADGO on the Kitchener line.

https://twitter.com/CFifeKW/status/11138...IhnVQ&s=19

Tory's in this province historically do not like Transit, and the only reason they are funding the core of the go Network this time around is because they want to retain the precious GTA V that got them elected in 2018. Without those votes, they are looking at a minority government or worse.

[tomh009]

That's interesting. For context...a GO train will traverse the 3.6 km in just over 2 minutes at 100km/h (a moderate top speed for GO trains--they can go much faster but usually don't).

How often are Kitchener line trains arriving within 2 minutes of their scheduled arrival time? If they arrive outside this scheduled arrival time they will delay the outgoing train.

Passing tracks can work, but they are very fragile to any scheduling issues like one might have when sharing with freight.

A 2.6 km passing track should be long enough for most (all?) freight trains as well.

[danbrotherston]

That's interesting. For context...a GO train will traverse the 3.6 km in just over 2 minutes at 100km/h (a moderate top speed for GO trains--they can go much faster but usually don't).

How often are Kitchener line trains arriving within 2 minutes of their scheduled arrival time? If they arrive outside this scheduled arrival time they will delay the outgoing train.

Passing tracks can work, but they are very fragile to any scheduling issues like one might have when sharing with freight.

A 2.6 km passing track should be long enough for most (all?) freight trains as well.

Yeah, it should fit freight trains as well, although AFAIK the freight conflicts are generally not on this segment of the Kitchener line, which Metrolinx already owns.

My point was that, for example, a Kitchener bound train may be delayed by a freight train near say Georgetown, and then be arriving in Kitchener 10-15 minutes late. This is a common occurrence. So now, the train OUT of Kitchener cannot depart until 15 minutes late, because it must wait till the train coming into KW reaches the passing segment.

Even worse, unless there is 15 minutes of slack in the schedule somewhere else, that delay is going to continue to cascade through the rest of the day, possibly putting trains in more conflict with other scheduled services and getting delayed further.

As for using the passing segment for a freight train, that's possible as well, but it would be difficult. Freight is slow and adheres poorly to schedules, so it may end up blocking the passing segment for a long time. Which means GO trains wouldn't be able to use it and it would be more difficult to schedule around.

Obviously you can solve these challenges with MORE passing segments, but at a certain point, you should just build a double track line.

I *do* think there is an interesting inversion of thinking that nobody really talks about which is the concept of a double track line with choke points. I'm not sure how this impacts scheduling, but if you widen the track to double tracks everywhere except the most expensive areas (bridges, tunnels, downtown) can you achieve most of the benefit of double track, with a fraction of the cost? Or do you really lose most of the benefits. I'm not really sure, and I don't think anyone can really answer the question definitively without actually studying it, scheduling is another problem that humans aren't very good at (mind you, neither are computers). FWIW...there is a BRT line in Gatineau that uses this concept. It re-uses an old single track railway bridge to cross the...Gatineau? river. Buses arrive and must wait for the bridge to be clear of oncoming traffic before proceeding. FWIW...again, this is something that works better when you aren't sharing with freight trains.

[ijmorlan]

I *do* think there is an interesting inversion of thinking that nobody really talks about which is the concept of a double track line with choke points. I'm not sure how this impacts scheduling, but if you widen the track to double tracks everywhere except the most expensive areas (bridges, tunnels, downtown) can you achieve most of the benefit of double track, with a fraction of the cost? Or do you really lose most of the benefits. I'm not really sure, and I don't think anyone can really answer the question definitively without actually studying it, scheduling is another problem that humans aren't very good at (mind you, neither are computers).  FWIW...there is a BRT line in Gatineau that uses this concept. It re-uses an old single track railway bridge to cross the...Gatineau? river. Buses arrive and must wait for the bridge to be clear of oncoming traffic before proceeding. FWIW...again, this is something that works better when you aren't sharing with freight trains.

I had not heard of this bridge, so looked and sure enough:

https://goo.gl/maps/GEccY3ATXRSmiAh48

You have the right river, and indeed the BRT runs parallel to a rail line which looks to me like it is out of service but still there. At the bridge, both directions of the BRT merge onto the single track; with appropriate protection one could have two-way rail and bus traffic. Incidentally, the rail line is the same one which used to continue across the Ottawa River and whose right of way is now used for the original O-Train on the Ottawa side.

I think for intermediate levels of service, this kind of concept can make a lot of sense. Instead of insisting on double track absolutely everywhere, leave some narrow areas. This also gives a turnback location for free. Even on the LRT this could have been done, for example on King between Allen and the Uptown station. The LRTs almost always meet at Allen so north of that location there is only one vehicle on the two tracks at a time. Of course, as you point out, as soon as something goes wrong it can cascade to the other direction; and at some point with increasing frequency it would start to cause significant problems.

[tomh009]

I *do* think there is an interesting inversion of thinking that nobody really talks about which is the concept of a double track line with choke points. I'm not sure how this impacts scheduling, but if you widen the track to double tracks everywhere except the most expensive areas (bridges, tunnels, downtown) can you achieve most of the benefit of double track, with a fraction of the cost? Or do you really lose most of the benefits. I'm not really sure, and I don't think anyone can really answer the question definitively without actually studying it, scheduling is another problem that humans aren't very good at (mind you, neither are computers).  FWIW...there is a BRT line in Gatineau that uses this concept. It re-uses an old single track railway bridge to cross the...Gatineau? river. Buses arrive and must wait for the bridge to be clear of oncoming traffic before proceeding. FWIW...again, this is something that works better when you aren't sharing with freight trains.

You would likely use a Monte Carlo simulation to study the impacts of the passing tracks in the various areas, along with schedule delays (the likelihood of which should be possible to simulate based on historical data). I absolutely believe that they can determine how much a 2.6 km passing track would help, as compared to a 1.6 km or 3.6 km segment. Not for a particular day, but on average, and with standard deviations.

[jamincan]

Isn't one of the major achievements of the Shinkansen that it's basically always on time? Between humans and computers, one of them figured out how to do scheduling there.

[ac3r]

Don't vote PCPO if you want to see all day GO service here, but vote PCPO if you want Doug Ford to bring it to Bowmanville: https://nationalpost.com/news/ontario-el...owmanville

[tomh009]

Isn't one of the major achievements of the Shinkansen that it's basically always on time? Between humans and computers, one of them figured out how to do scheduling there.

As a rule, trains run on time in Japan. Of course, accidents or other incidents can throw that off, but normal operation is super punctual.

[danbrotherston]

Isn't one of the major achievements of the Shinkansen that it's basically always on time? Between humans and computers, one of them figured out how to do scheduling there.

By "scheduling" I meant in the computer science meaning...i.e., finding a schedule which meets a set of constraints, and I meant hard in a computer science meaning as well...there isn't a fast algorithm to solve it.

It is certainly the case for a given context, on a human train scale, we can find a schedule.

I meant humans are not good at it, in that our intuitions do not usually give us a good direction on finding an optimal solution.

But even then, the on time performance of the Shinkansen (or any train really) isn't about finding a schedule, it's about ensuring that all the constraints are correctly identified and either removed (by eliminating sources of delays) or built into the schedule.

As for the Shinkansen specifically and Japanese trains in general, as I think we've probably covered here, schedules are easier and more reliable when they don't need to account for sharing with freight.

[KevinL]

Is this new Breslau passing track in the same area where they plan to build the station?

[SammyOES]

Is this new Breslau passing track in the same area where they plan to build the station?

It almost has to be.  The bridge is on the west side of Breslau and not being touched (as I understand it).  Then it’s only about 2km from there to the proposed station which is on the east side.  I don’t think Breslau is even 3km wide.

Edit: Looking at google images, I guess maybe it’ll be started around where the tracks cross Woolwich street and then go by the new station and out past Breslau.

They mention the shantz station bridge being expanded and thats about 3km from the fountain street bridge so maybe the lane does start closer to the new station and not in the older part of Breslau.

[KevinL]

Several new train trips starting May 24; I think this gets us back to pre-pandemic frequency. 

Starting Tuesday, May 24, we’re bringing back more evening rail service on the Kitchener line.

One additional eastbound trip will depart Kitchener GO at 8:45 p.m.
Two additional westbound trips to Kitchener GO will depart Union Station at 5:34 p.m. and 9:34 p.m., and one additional trip to Guelph GO will depart Union Station at 10:34 p.m.
To offer Kitchener line service later into the evening, the 8:43 p.m. westbound trip from Union Station will stop at Mount Pleasant GO, with bus connections to Kitchener.
Also starting Tuesday, May 24, more trips will start and end at Kitchener GO throughout the day.

Eastbound trips at 8:45 a.m., 11:45 a.m., and 2:47 p.m. will begin at Kitchener GO.
Westbound trips at 9:34 a.m. and 12:34 p.m. will be extended to Kitchener GO.

To offer more consistent service during the afternoon rush hour, the 5:49 p.m. westbound trip to Kitchener GO will depart 15 minutes later, at 6:04 p.m.

To accommodate rail traffic in the network, the 8:34 a.m. westbound train trip from Union Station will be cancelled and replaced by bus service, departing from the Union Station Bus Terminal at 8:16 a.m.

https://www.gotransit.com/en/trip-planni...le-changes

[Bytor]

Back to prepandemic trains per day, but September 2021 service that them got cut back in January 2022 had 2 more tpd K→T and 1 more T→K.

[Acitta]

The new bus terminal at Bramalea GO Station is now open as of today, June 9. Board the #30 to Kitchener at platform 8.

[plam]

The new bus terminal at Bramalea GO Station is now open as of today, June 9. Board the #30 to Kitchener at platform 8.

Spiffy looking but the current lack of retail at Bramalea is terrible. I think it's in the plans but not there yet.