864-872 King St W | 55, 44, 38, 16 fl | proposed

[ZEBuilder]

This got approved at yesterdays Planning and Strategic Initatives meeting, this still requires final council approval which should occur at the next council meeting.

There were some minor technical changes to the site which really don't change much, the way the parking structure is staff is considering it 45 floors instead of 44 floors however the height does not change. The tower itself was repositioned such that there are better set backs to the East and South property lines, the East set back makes it easier for future development of the adjacent parking lot and the southern set back allows for easier redevelopment of 850 King and phase 2 of this development. In terms of overall there is nothing major changing on the site.

The plans have confirmed it is a 3 phase development, this current tower being phase 1, the building fronting King being phase 2 and the final phase will be along Pine.

This is also going through CMHC which would require about 20% affordable housing which again is more than IZ requirements.

Councillor Stretch was the one questioning Vive on this one more than anyone else she was primarily complaining about traffic, Vive came back saying it's less than 1 per unit so while the building may be 450+ units it does not mean there will be 450 cars, there are only 270 spaces so its more realistic to look at that value. Stretch's second complaint was with construction traffic since the development on the other side of Pine has been using the local roads for access, in this case the residents were citing cement trucks at early hours or having lines of trucks on Pine/Herbert, in this case however that was primarily for raft slab pours where you need a constant flow of concrete but the King/Pine site is a lot more constrained then this in terms of staging areas which is why they need to use the route that they use through the neighbourhood. Anecdotally I was doing work on Union a few months ago and Stubbe's trucks were coming once an hour or so, it really wasn't horrific in any regard.

Stretch also asked if Waterloo could be informed but staff said it is not a requirement since it is not within the 120m radius (thankfully) of the site. A lot of the complaints from the public were traffic/height, one resident who delegated called the King/Pine building under construction making the area cavernous, in this case the Vive property is SGA 4 so there's no height limit so it's really just the  NIMBY nonsense.

[panamaniac]

Not where I'd stick a 45 storey tower, but the real problem, istm, is that it's damned ugly.

[nms]

Stretch also asked if Waterloo could be informed but staff said it is not a requirement since it is not within the 240m radius (thankfully) of the site. A lot of the complaints from the public were traffic/height, one resident who delegated called the King/Pine building under construction making the area cavernous, in this case the Vive property is SGA 4 so there's no height limit so it's really just the  NIMBY nonsense.

Mount Hope Cemetery is partially owned by the City of Waterloo. The distance to the Pine St entrance of Mount Hope Cemetery from the corner of Mary and Pine is ~120m. (the distance from King St to the Mount Hope entrance on Pine is 200m) .  274 Herbert St, is south of the corner of Roger and Herbert St is located in Waterloo and it's 204 m away.  Presumably part of Herbert St is therefore a Waterloo street and within the 240m radius of the property in question.

[ZEBuilder]

Stretch also asked if Waterloo could be informed but staff said it is not a requirement since it is not within the 240m radius (thankfully) of the site. A lot of the complaints from the public were traffic/height, one resident who delegated called the King/Pine building under construction making the area cavernous, in this case the Vive property is SGA 4 so there's no height limit so it's really just the  NIMBY nonsense.

Mount Hope Cemetery is partially owned by the City of Waterloo. The distance to the Pine St entrance of Mount Hope Cemetery from the corner of Mary and Pine is ~120m. (the distance from King St to the Mount Hope entrance on Pine is 200m) .  274 Herbert St, is south of the corner of Roger and Herbert St is located in Waterloo and it's 204 m away.  Presumably part of Herbert St is therefore a Waterloo street and within the 240m radius of the property in question.

My mistake it's actually 120m, I was looking at something else while typing that post so I mixed numbers up. The 120m radius stays entirely within the city of Kitchener, with 5 properties on the Kitchener side not included in that radius.

[nms]

Not be a wag, but I believe that the City of Waterloo and the City of Kitchener co-own the Grand River Hospital site. The Region discovered this when they had to expropriate land from the hospital for the LRT easements.

[wiwi887]

But really, it looks like they are still climbing another gigantic tower of Babel with little concern on the neighborhood. Small changes do not address the core concerns, traffic, pedestrian influxes, and now it is rising oppressively above everything around it.

[ZEBuilder]

Not be a wag, but I believe that the City of Waterloo and the City of Kitchener co-own the Grand River Hospital site.  The Region discovered this when they had to expropriate land from the hospital for the LRT easements.

It wouldn't surprise me, I was more so referring to Waterloo residents who are typical NIMBYs when I said thankfully Waterloo wasn't in the radius, the 30 floor building right at Allen Station was a fight to get approved because it was taller than normal so if those Waterloo residents were included they would have a conniption.

[tomh009]

Not be a wag, but I believe that the City of Waterloo and the City of Kitchener co-own the Grand River Hospital site.  The Region discovered this when they had to expropriate land from the hospital for the LRT easements.

The owner is listed as "Grand River Hospital Corporation".

[Nextasy]

CKCO/CTV demo is complete

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/goodbye-ckc...-1.7110734

What bugs me is the (once again) no parkland dedication. This neighbourhood (KW hospital) is one of the worst in kw for parkland per person, with pretty much no public parks.


Kitchener considers it "critical" to acquire more parkland in the neighbourhood (KW Hospital, King East, Downtown, and Civic Centre are the critical neighbourhoods) and yet they seem fine with Vive adding all these people and 0 parkland. I imagine it'll be a cash-in-lieu dedication that will end up in some sports complex in doon or some crap.

Kids will play in the cemetery I guess, won't be any problems with that I'm sure.

All the parks are minimum 10-12 minute walk from the site. If they have so much land here in such a prominent location, the city should really be forcing them to add something.

[creative]

Is that not parkland directly behind this property? Walter St. Park is an 8 minute walk according to Google maps.

[cherrypark]

Not entirely - it is sport fields for KCI. I think the point remains that there are sparingly little parkland contributions or mechanisms for the city to add it. I think generally the state of lifeless parking podia (or expensive retail, if there) with private rooftop amenities really miss out on the chance to make these new denser hubs places.

[Nextasy]

Is that not parkland directly behind this property? Walter St. Park is an 8 minute walk according to Google maps.

Both are school grounds. Behind the property is the KCI soccer field, Walter st park is actually king Edward school's. They're better than nothing but they're not the same as a public park

[MidTowner]

Is that not parkland directly behind this property? Walter St. Park is an 8 minute walk according to Google maps.

Both are school grounds. Behind the property is the KCI soccer field, Walter st park is actually king Edward school's. They're better than nothing but they're not the same as a public park

On Walter Street Park, it is in fact a public park. King Edward makes use of it, but it is City of Kitchener, not WRDSB.

I don't disagree with your point, though, there is not really that much parkland here, and here is an example of more residents, and not more parkspace in the vicinity, but rather cash in lieu that will doubtlessly support recreation elsewhere.

The KCI field is often used as an offleash dog park. The cemetary, as you say, serves as a recreation area. Not that many parks.

It's worth noting that the ODC redevelopment includes a small playground on Roger Street just a couple of minutes' walk through the cemetary.

[tomh009]

Having a developer dedicate land for parks usually results something on the scale of a parkette: the proportion of the property is not so high and the properties (mostly) not so large so the resulting parkland ends up being a small patch.

The city (and probably cities, I think Waterloo is not adding a lot of parks, either) really needs to bite the bullet and purchase something more substantial to make a park.

[ZEBuilder]

There is a parkland dedication fund that the developer has to pay into however the developer doesn't have to pay those funds until after the issuance of building permits.

So in this case once this phase gets permits the city will get the funds to use. Which will go into the cities funds and then it will be used for either new parks or improvements to existing.

Sure the city has numerous things with SPA approval or ZBA/OPA but they can't get any funds until those proceed to the permitting phase.

When the province got rid of bonusing it removed the cities ability to require additional dedication beyond the typical amount so it's typically easier to do cash in lieu of parkland because such a small amount of parkland is required, this only changes if the city's parkland bylaw is approved but it's under appeal at the OLT.