What does DTK need?

[tomh009]

Someone mentioned potentially providing a retail  tax break for retailers in the dt Core. I actually think this could be a clever solution to encourage a larger anchor to set up an urban format store in Kitchener. I wouldn't mind if we looked at a commercial tax break to entice corporations and businesses to establish offices in the core. Losing, Manulife, Sunlife, Rogers radio and Stantec where blows. It would have been nice if CTV had set up shop dtk instead of out near sportsworld. We already "subsidize" suburban office parks/ power centres. 

That was me. We now have people lots of people living downtown (and more coming as buildings are completed), we (still) have lots of office workers, we have lots of restaurants and coffee shops. Retail is the challenge, and a good selection of small/specialy retail, even without a large big-name store, would help people come downtown to shop. Even more services: hair salons, massage therapy, physio, electronics repair and other things that cannot be delivered by Amazon.

Eliminating hte property tax wouldn't be a massive subsidy but it would convince some retailers to locate downtown and get a solid start before the tax holiday ends.

[nms]

What any urban space really needs is lots of "third places".  There are some in downtown Kitchener but beyond a few coffee shops, or City Hall and/or Carl Zehr Square, I can't think of many places that might fit the bill.

In my limited experience of "great cities", there was a mixture of public and cultural spaces (eg squares, promenades, museums, public buildings) and private space that actively reached out the public (eg cafés, bars, places that might showcase live music)

[plam]

What any urban space really needs is lots of "third places".  There are some in downtown Kitchener but beyond a few coffee shops, or City Hall and/or Carl Zehr Square, I can't think of many places that might fit the bill.

In my limited experience of "great cities", there was a mixture of public and cultural spaces (eg squares, promenades, museums, public buildings) and private space that actively reached out the public (eg cafés, bars, places that might showcase live music)

Agree. Libraries are a really good third space and the Kitchener Public Library is good, but there should be more.

[the_conestoga_guy]

What any urban space really needs is lots of "third places".  There are some in downtown Kitchener but beyond a few coffee shops, or City Hall and/or Carl Zehr Square, I can't think of many places that might fit the bill.

In my limited experience of "great cities", there was a mixture of public and cultural spaces (eg squares, promenades, museums, public buildings) and private space that actively reached out the public (eg cafés, bars, places that might showcase live music)

I definitely agree that DTK lacks quality options for 3rd spaces, especially in the winter. 

I actually wrote about this when I gave feedback to the city on their Engage page for the Kitchener Market. I think it’s a space that could be really cool if managed properly. 

First, I’d love for the market to establish some full time, 7 day a week grocery vendors. It doesn’t need to be the full fleet that comes out on the weekend, just enough for locals to count on it as their local grocery store. 

Then, open up the market for longer hours to allow for people to meet and linger in the upstairs seating area. It could be great for meeting up with friends, or maybe for hosting Euchre or chess tournaments. Maybe one or two of the upstairs food vendors would start to stay open to meet this demand. Then maybe small musical acts could book the space. 

I think having a space where you already need to visit (grocery store) but allows for lingering and small local events could be a game changer for that end of downtown

[panamaniac]

What any urban space really needs is lots of "third places".  There are some in downtown Kitchener but beyond a few coffee shops, or City Hall and/or Carl Zehr Square, I can't think of many places that might fit the bill.

In my limited experience of "great cities", there was a mixture of public and cultural spaces (eg squares, promenades, museums, public buildings) and private space that actively reached out the public (eg cafés, bars, places that might showcase live music)

Agree. Libraries are a really good third space and the Kitchener Public Library is good, but there should be more.

The many Downtown churches would also qualify, no?

[ac3r]

I've been greatly enjoying the responses on the Charles Terminal thread, but I think a question that I want to ask would be more appropriate in this thread.

Other than an arena/convention centre, and other than additional housing, what is the single thing that our city could do to make our downtown "world class".

Or at least to become the 4th-best downtown in our country. I think that's a lofty goal, but one that could certainly be achieved given the tremendously low bar we'd need to clear to beat cities like Ottawa or Edmonton.

Pedestrianize a good section of King Street. Make more parks. Get rid of the homeless, drug addicts and free roaming psychiatric patients because literally nobody wants to be around that. Make more spaces and better environments for people to just have somewhere to hang out...I don't mean private sector because having disposable income should not be the prerequisite to do things, just make useful spaces people can actually go and use. The city hall public square renovation is a great example of how to completely ruin a space when you turn it into a huge thing of concrete and a couple shitty lawn chairs they only put out a couple times of year (enjoy sitting on cold, hard concrete blocks the rest of the time). Add more green spaces and places people can just walk and sit. Like, instead of bike lanes almost nobody uses they could have put some cozy pathway with trees, flowers, water features, benches, tables and so on that people can actually use for something. Expand the public wifi across the whole city if it could be done without costing a fortune...internet is useful. Further, tables/"desks", power outlets etc can get people out. Permit street vendors and food trucks to set up wherever the hell they want without having to go through ridiculous applications, pay fees and deal with bureaucracy. Design spaces that will keep people warm/dry when the weather isn't great, but which don't require you to buy something to occupy. Craft up plans for future rapid transit that can actually move people in/out of downtown fast and efficiently, since the LRT sucks. More people would want to come downtown via transit if it didn't take 5 minutes to turn a corner. Make it easier/cheaper to set up a business. Grow schools and youth programs, so young people feel compelled to want to go downtown.

There are so many potentials that it's kind of perplexing how this area hasn't managed to figure it out yet. Or, when they do have the vaguest "good" idea, they still manage to screw it up. Just clean the place up and make it somewhere people want to go rather than avoid. You don't need bike lane highways, multi-billion dollar sports venues and all this grandioise stuff. You just need to create an environment that can allow things to come organically. "World class" cities become world class as a result of creating safe, clean environments like this as opposed to excessive regulation or one of total chaos.

[KevinL]

Agree. Libraries are a really good third space and the Kitchener Public Library is good, but there should be more.

The many Downtown churches would also qualify, no?

I suppose, but their programming can lean conservative - and even if it's a progressive and secular event they are hosting, the nature of the venue can still turn some people off.

[neonjoe]

The many Downtown churches would also qualify, no?

I suppose, but their programming can lean conservative - and even if it's a progressive and secular event they are hosting, the nature of the venue can still turn some people off.

Some of them do help alleviate or at least give the underprivileged assistance. Thinking of the Tiny Home Takeout as an example.

[panamaniac]

I was thinking of concerts and venues for community group meetings.

[tomh009]

Get rid of the homeless, drug addicts and free roaming psychiatric patients because literally nobody wants to be around that.

What magic wand do you propose to wave to achieve this?

[bravado]

Get rid of the homeless, drug addicts and free roaming psychiatric patients because literally nobody wants to be around that.

What magic wand do you propose to wave to achieve this?

Surely we can just copy the tactics of all the hundreds of anglo-sphere cities that have accomplished this easy feat! *crickets*

[Kodra24]

I've been greatly enjoying the responses on the Charles Terminal thread, but I think a question that I want to ask would be more appropriate in this thread.

Other than an arena/convention centre, and other than additional housing, what is the single thing that our city could do to make our downtown "world class".

Or at least to become the 4th-best downtown in our country. I think that's a lofty goal, but one that could certainly be achieved given the tremendously low bar we'd need to clear to beat cities like Ottawa or Edmonton.

Pedestrianize a good section of King Street. Make more parks. Get rid of the homeless, drug addicts and free roaming psychiatric patients because literally nobody wants to be around that. Make more spaces and better environments for people to just have somewhere to hang out...I don't mean private sector because having disposable income should not be the prerequisite to do things, just make useful spaces people can actually go and use. The city hall public square renovation is a great example of how to completely ruin a space when you turn it into a huge thing of concrete and a couple shitty lawn chairs they only put out a couple times of year (enjoy sitting on cold, hard concrete blocks the rest of the time). Add more green spaces and places people can just walk and sit. Like, instead of bike lanes almost nobody uses they could have put some cozy pathway with trees, flowers, water features, benches, tables and so on that people can actually use for something. Expand the public wifi across the whole city if it could be done without costing a fortune...internet is useful. Further, tables/"desks", power outlets etc can get people out. Permit street vendors and food trucks to set up wherever the hell they want without having to go through ridiculous applications, pay fees and deal with bureaucracy. Design spaces that will keep people warm/dry when the weather isn't great, but which don't require you to buy something to occupy. Craft up plans for future rapid transit that can actually move people in/out of downtown fast and efficiently, since the LRT sucks. More people would want to come downtown via transit if it didn't take 5 minutes to turn a corner. Make it easier/cheaper to set up a business. Grow schools and youth programs, so young people feel compelled to want to go downtown.

There are so many potentials that it's kind of perplexing how this area hasn't managed to figure it out yet. Or, when they do have the vaguest "good" idea, they still manage to screw it up. Just clean the place up and make it somewhere people want to go rather than avoid. You don't need bike lane highways, multi-billion dollar sports venues and all this grandioise stuff. You just need to create an environment that can allow things to come organically. "World class" cities become world class as a result of creating safe, clean environments like this as opposed to excessive regulation or one of total chaos.

Well said - not sure if you could describe the issue more succinctly than this

[danbrotherston]

Pedestrianize a good section of King Street. Make more parks. Get rid of the homeless, drug addicts and free roaming psychiatric patients because literally nobody wants to be around that. Make more spaces and better environments for people to just have somewhere to hang out...I don't mean private sector because having disposable income should not be the prerequisite to do things, just make useful spaces people can actually go and use. The city hall public square renovation is a great example of how to completely ruin a space when you turn it into a huge thing of concrete and a couple shitty lawn chairs they only put out a couple times of year (enjoy sitting on cold, hard concrete blocks the rest of the time). Add more green spaces and places people can just walk and sit. Like, instead of bike lanes almost nobody uses they could have put some cozy pathway with trees, flowers, water features, benches, tables and so on that people can actually use for something. Expand the public wifi across the whole city if it could be done without costing a fortune...internet is useful. Further, tables/"desks", power outlets etc can get people out. Permit street vendors and food trucks to set up wherever the hell they want without having to go through ridiculous applications, pay fees and deal with bureaucracy. Design spaces that will keep people warm/dry when the weather isn't great, but which don't require you to buy something to occupy. Craft up plans for future rapid transit that can actually move people in/out of downtown fast and efficiently, since the LRT sucks. More people would want to come downtown via transit if it didn't take 5 minutes to turn a corner. Make it easier/cheaper to set up a business. Grow schools and youth programs, so young people feel compelled to want to go downtown.

There are so many potentials that it's kind of perplexing how this area hasn't managed to figure it out yet. Or, when they do have the vaguest "good" idea, they still manage to screw it up. Just clean the place up and make it somewhere people want to go rather than avoid. You don't need bike lane highways, multi-billion dollar sports venues and all this grandioise stuff. You just need to create an environment that can allow things to come organically. "World class" cities become world class as a result of creating safe, clean environments like this as opposed to excessive regulation or one of total chaos.

Well said - not sure if you could describe the issue more succinctly than this

Ac3r, along with most people miss the point here. The bike lane highways that they and others rant about don’t exist to make downtown better. No Dutch city has such a thing. They exist to make it more possible to exist alongside cars. The only thing we need to do is get rid of the cars. But we lack the will and courage to do so, so instead we need bike lanes. And further we will never have a truly great livable downtown. But focusing on whining about bike lanes, people miss the damn point.

[Kodra24]

Well said - not sure if you could describe the issue more succinctly than this

Ac3r, along with most people miss the point here. The bike lane highways that they and others rant about don’t exist to make downtown better. No Dutch city has such a thing. They exist to make it more possible to exist alongside cars. The only thing we need to do is get rid of the cars. But we lack the will and courage to do so, so instead we need bike lanes. And further we will never have a truly great livable downtown. But focusing on whining about bike lanes, people miss the damn point.

You're missing the point - it's not about how you get there, it's WHY you want to go there in the first place

[bravado]

Ac3r, along with most people miss the point here. The bike lane highways that they and others rant about don’t exist to make downtown better. No Dutch city has such a thing. They exist to make it more possible to exist alongside cars. The only thing we need to do is get rid of the cars. But we lack the will and courage to do so, so instead we need bike lanes. And further we will never have a truly great livable downtown. But focusing on whining about bike lanes, people miss the damn point.

You're missing the point - it's not about how you get there, it's WHY you want to go there in the first place

No place can be good if people can't get there in the first place, and a place that allows lots of people to drive there quickly and easily isn't a place people want to be (see: walmart parking lots). There's a reason why people want to go see the old city in philadelphia, or italian villages, or the narrow vibrant streets of tokyo - and nobody ever wants to go to the exotic Home Depot or the culturally significant new Chick-Fil-A across town. There are Real places and there are auto-centric places, and they are diametrically opposed to each other.

Downtown Kitchener is stuck between trying to make a real place, but also compromising and making it a driving-friendly place. Worst of both worlds. The tragic part is that it used to be a real place. before the parking lots. We've just culturally forgotten.