ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[Acitta]

The best idea is to just scrap the past idealistic ION light rail idea the region had when it began. The world has drastically changed since then and there is no longer the need for the same project idea they had in 2010-2015 to be built today. It is obviously going to be a waste of money which we don't even have in the first place. The ION ultimately sucked, I think everyone can agree with that these days. Nobody cares about whether it was the best "bang for the buck" because it's just objectively bad. You're wrong if you disagree.

What needs to happen to deal with Cambridge is for the region to look at the transit from a fresh perspective. Them contemplating whether or not it makes any sense to build is a start. In fact, in my experience the fact they brought that up is them saying it's never going to happen anytime soon. It makes no sense to spend billions of dollars to run an LRT to a small suburban city of not even 140'000 people in which the majority of its population are not in favour of rapid urbanization of their community. That's fine and you can't force that. Fill the need by improving BRT because obviously the 302 route is obviously something people demand. Buses are thankfully really flexible.

Put money into BRT and put money into improving the existing LRT with things like faster frequency/headways, finally coupling the damn trains together and exploring ideas for future extensions - and an inevitable route to Cambridge. Things that will actually benefit people. Nobody is benefitting from burning 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 billion dollars on a project that'll take 15 years to finish and go way over budget, only for people to end up being extremely disappointed in the same way regional residents were disappointed in the existing LRT after all is said and done.

There are much better ways to improve transit between Cambridge and the rest of the region which don't include forcing a multi-billion dollar bill upon people.

When I ride the ION, it is always crowded. I don't know why you say it sucked. There are European cities comparable in size to Waterloo Region that have tram systems. I don't know why you think that it can't work in Cambridge. We spend billions of dollars on roads that become clogged with traffic because we don't provide more efficient alternatives.

[KevinL]

The Ion is a grand success in both its main goals - improving transit and intensifying development. Anyone who can't see that on the face of it just isn't able to observe the world around them.

Are there bigger challenges getting to Cambridge? Are we certain we'll see the same degree of success there? Those are points worth discussing. But saying the existing system is a failure is a bald-faced lie.

[bravado]

At this point just do the BRT for less, hope that GO to Cambridge gets approved, and live to fight for whatever Phase 3 would have been within KW.

If the policy of some is "let's cheap out on Cambridge so we can do the nice thing in KW later", then this Region is cooked politically. City-building for me, but not for thee. I can't adequately explain how insulting this is - as if a few bridges over flat, seismically-stable land is akin to building a new Ancient Wonder of the World. But I get it, wealthy tech and university people need their train and the more modest working people on Hespeler Road should just settle for a bus because they don't deserve the same as us. If only they took the effort to go to public meetings at 2PM on a tuesday like us! They don't deserve the same clean train as others because they made the mistake of trying to start their life and buy a house in the wrong year and in the wrong city.

All of North America can't do public procurement anymore. If Phase 2 is twice as expensive as it should be, then Phase 3 will be too. As will the next hospital, and school, and highway widening - but the bill for those doesn't really get local headlines so nobody talks about it - only transit. Fuck, they're keeping the bill for Highway 413 secret so we can keep fighting for the scraps in the transit world while the suburbanites get blank cheques for whatever they like.

[Momo26]

I don't think anyone is saying Cambridge residents don't 'deserve' a train. The question is whether that is the best use of resources to serve a population like Camrbidge - both an extremely NIMBY populace and one that historically dislikes expansion AND one that is awkwardly spread out (maybe I haven't visited enough places in Canada). Hespeler road is like 'off the interstate 95' town vibes to be honest. Could a LRT change it? Maybe, but i dont see where homes and density could fit there, as a by product of bringing in a LRT.

How about Cambrisge come to the table and bring the fresh ideas? Along with some perspective on improving the homeless issue there.

[tomh009]

At this point just do the BRT for less, hope that GO to Cambridge gets approved, and live to fight for whatever Phase 3 would have been within KW.

If the policy of some is "let's cheap out on Cambridge so we can do the nice thing in KW later", then this Region is cooked politically. City-building for me, but not for thee. I can't adequately explain how insulting this is - as if a few bridges over flat, seismically-stable land is akin to building a new Ancient Wonder of the World. But I get it, wealthy tech and university people need their train and the more modest working people on Hespeler Road should just settle for a bus because they don't deserve the same as us. (...)

Far too many posts for me, but as far as I recall, the interest in LRT among the Cambridge mayor and council was on the low side for quite a long time. Doug Craig voted against the LRT in the first place, did they not? And the Cambridge council rejected at least one of the Phase 2 plans. So, I do think part of this is frustration with Cambridge, too.

[bravado]

It really shouldn't be a shock that a city without university students + the extended community around them isn't really accepting of urbanism. Cambridge's selfish and ancient council is no different than any sprawling Ontario city. I don't want to defend their rampant small-mindedness, but the messaging that people get from KW really couldn't be more condescending and dismissive, so why would they bother taking a political risk on something new and expensive?

KW has no shortage of NIMBY councillors and mayors and local business leaders who tried their best to kill Phase 1, and I'd say that most people in the vast majority of the city that isn't served by Phase 1 still treat it (at best) with derision.

The point is that I didn't choose the city that I put down roots in - nobody in my generation has been able to make that choice. If Cambridge doesn't get Phase 2, then KW will have a sprawling tumour, full of resentment and financial liabilities, attached to it for the next century. I'm angry that leadership doesn't see that but I'm not surprised - the bar couldn't be lower.

I've also seen lots of comments from local activists and councillors and businesses in favour of Phase 2 - but it all gets drowned out in the endless negativity that surrounds local issues.

[bravado]

Anyways I think if Phase 1 was proposed today, it would never have been built. It genuinely seems like nobody has the political capacity to do anything.

It seems like the best possible outcome is jamming through something that "the voters" (20%) don't like, building it anyways, and then everyone forgets how much they hated it once its built and running fine. Not my favourite option - but no alternatives exist in our current cultural political leadership vacuum.

[neonjoe]

Smaller chunks at a time may be more palatable to the electorate and government plus allow for quicker implementation of each segment. Bringing on more ridership in these areas would be a good demonstration of the need to continue to lengthen it into Cambridge. The Region may have an easier time presenting the cases to the upper levels of government and could come in with smaller requests each time. The project doesn't need to be a monolith. Rapid transit construction used to follow this approach, adding a station or two continuously rather than building an entire line at once.

Potentially phase it as follows.
1. Fairway to Sportsworld - Almost to Cambridge. Allows for a good connection to GO/Intercity Buses, Commuter lot. Move the bus facility from beside YE's sushi to the area where the foundations for future buildings in Sportsworld crossing were poured and later removed.
2. Sportsworld to Pinebush - Serves Preston and the Pinebush Node/Potential GO station. Another place where we can use the system for connectivity to other modes of transport.
3. Pinebush to Delta - Almost gets into the heart of Galt, serves Cambridge Centre and the Delta. Another good potential point for additional connectivity.
4. Delta to Ainslie - this only makes sense if there is still a terminal at Ainslie, I would expect Cambridge to move more towards a spine after LRT is implemented.

[dunkalunk]

Smaller chunks at a time may be more palatable to the electorate and government plus allow for quicker implementation of each segment. Bringing on more ridership in these areas would be a good demonstration of the need to continue to lengthen it into Cambridge. The Region may have an easier time presenting the cases to the upper levels of government and could come in with smaller requests each time. The project doesn't need to be a monolith. Rapid transit construction used to follow this approach, adding a station or two continuously rather than building an entire line at once.

Potentially phase it as follows.
1. Fairway to Sportsworld - Almost to Cambridge. Allows for a good connection to GO/Intercity Buses, Commuter lot. Move the bus facility from beside YE's sushi to the area where the foundations for future buildings in Sportsworld crossing were poured and later removed.
2. Sportsworld to Pinebush - Serves Preston and the Pinebush Node/Potential GO station. Another place where we can use the system for connectivity to other modes of transport.
3. Pinebush to Delta - Almost gets into the heart of Galt, serves Cambridge Centre and the Delta. Another good potential point for additional connectivity.
4. Delta to Ainslie - this only makes sense if there is still a terminal at Ainslie, I would expect Cambridge to move more towards a spine after LRT is implemented.

Can't agree more. More phasing, smaller pieces, local team building local expertise, continuous incremental expansion. This is how we get it done. We're past needing to do a big spend to have a minimum viable system at this point. We can continue to grow what we have.

[KevinL]

Indeed, and after (or even during) the above phased work we can add new branches and/or full lines in KW to keep growing the network.

[nms]

From a practical point of view, what's the smallest phase that could be built and commissioned with it still making sense? Station by station (say 1km apart)? Or is the whole system complex enough that multiple stations or stretches would need to be done (say 5km at a time). If the Region had developed a local ecosystem of contractors who could work on this project, I could foresee a decade long plan that saw the system grow incrementally in various directions rather than waiting for one big stretch at a time.

[ZEBuilder]

From a practical point of view, what's the smallest phase that could be built and commissioned with it still making sense?  Station by station (say 1km apart)?  Or is the whole system complex enough that multiple stations or stretches would need to be done (say 5km at a time).  If the Region had developed a local ecosystem of contractors who could work on this project, I could foresee a decade long plan that saw the system grow incrementally in various directions rather than waiting for one big stretch at a time.

With where the Region wants an east-west line (Ottawa) there isn't really an easy option to build it in phases at least initally. This is mainly due to how it would interconnect with phase 1. At Mill you would need a grade separation because of the CN tracks, unless you work out something with CN to not have trains during the day. Which effectively means an underground or above ground station to adequately interconnect with phase 1 at Mill. Then you have to figure out the Alpine and Homer Watson roundabouts. Going east you'd need to figure out where you're coming back above ground or below ground after Mill and are you interconnecting with Borden? After Weber it can easily be phased same thing with going west from Alpine.

A Victoria route needs to wait on the MTO so that can't be built at least soon, and again how are you crossing the spur past Park St and how are you dealing with crossing the tracks at King.

A University route is likely the simplest but again how are you dealing with crossing phase 1.

Once we get to Cambridge it's certainly possible to build it in phases but you really need to get to Pinebush before that makes sense.

So it does really depend on mainly how Line 1 is interconnected with how a cross town line is built in terms of how many km could be built at a time. It would certainly build up our local contractors wealth of knowledge (Capital, Steed and Evans, Musselman, Cox?, and Regional?).

[danbrotherston]

From a practical point of view, what's the smallest phase that could be built and commissioned with it still making sense?  Station by station (say 1km apart)?  Or is the whole system complex enough that multiple stations or stretches would need to be done (say 5km at a time).  If the Region had developed a local ecosystem of contractors who could work on this project, I could foresee a decade long plan that saw the system grow incrementally in various directions rather than waiting for one big stretch at a time.

With where the Region wants an east-west line (Ottawa) there isn't really an easy option to build it in phases at least initally. This is mainly due to how it would interconnect with phase 1. At Mill you would need a grade separation because of the CN tracks, unless you work out something with CN to not have trains during the day. Which effectively means an underground or above ground station to adequately interconnect with phase 1 at Mill. Then you have to figure out the Alpine and Homer Watson roundabouts. Going east you'd need to figure out where you're coming back above ground or below ground after Mill and are you interconnecting with Borden? After Weber it can easily be phased same thing with going west from Alpine.

A Victoria route needs to wait on the MTO so that can't be built at least soon, and again how are you crossing the spur past Park St and how are you dealing with crossing the tracks at King.

A University route is likely the simplest but again how are you dealing with crossing phase 1.

Once we get to Cambridge it's certainly possible to build it in phases but you really need to get to Pinebush before that makes sense.

So it does really depend on mainly how Line 1 is interconnected with how a cross town line is built in terms of how many km could be built at a time. It would certainly build up our local contractors wealth of knowledge (Capital, Steed and Evans, Musselman, Cox?, and Regional?).

You can build a disconnected segment in Cambridge to connect meaningful destinations (and that probably also has the highest ridership opportunities anyway). But then you must duplicate all the storage and maintenance facilities.

[Kodra24]

I'm definitely in favour of extending the LRT to Cambridge - the sooner the better (and I don't even ride it)

Many good points and possibilities raised here, hopefully something does materialize

[bravado]

Incremental building has the added benefit of letting people use it, get used to it, and eventually get over their fear/hate responses gradually.

We all know this phenomenon. Propose something new, get instant backlash, build it anyway, and then nobody remembers what life was like before.

It’s a problem with our system but I feel like it’s not possible to convince people about almost any new proposal. Political minds don’t seem to change, regardless of the good faith arguments presented. You can have an argument about new transit that objectively reduces congestion and raises tax revenue, and people will still never get over their initial reaction.