ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit

[Momo26]

Let's dive into this one a bit more...and please understand, I'm coming from a place of pro-LRT/modernization of the Region. I work with people all over the province and I have been anointed a very community based promoter of where I live. I feel like that's important to tell everyone here but in living, contributing and raising a family here, I hope im allowed to critique it. It's not a slight on anyone, or any persons that came here temporarily and decided to stay and make a life for themselves.

My brain isn't big enough to break out a 2 meter squared topical map and plot stuff out, crunch numbers and math whiz you, so I'm tapping on AI to help.

The numbers are outdated, but tbh, these are probably closer to peek height figures vs today, IF the international students are taken into account.

Based on a 250-metre walking catchment around ION stations, an estimated ~4.7% of Kitchener+Waterloo residents live within a 250 m walk of an ION station.
Breakdown (best-effort estimate):

Waterloo: ~6,600 residents ≈ 5.5% of the city.

Kitchener: ~11,300 residents ≈ 4.4% of the city.


(Combined population used: Kitchener 256,885 and Waterloo 121,436 — 2021 Census).


I consider UP TO A 250M walk to a LRT station reasonable. No connections, no massive distance to get to, what should be a defacto, public transit system, either.

>> Even using generous assumptions that the LRT corridor serves everyone living within a 250-metre walk, fewer than one in twenty residents of Kitchener–Waterloo (≈4.7%) live within that walkable catchment. That shows the LRT’s footprint is narrow — it serves dense urban cores (university, hospital, downtown) but does not directly serve the much larger suburban resident base.

[Momo26]

Now the concept that the majority of public transit in a big city serves ubran dwellers isn't new, but the number of above will still likely come at quite a surprise. If you want people to give up or park the car and get on, they need a viable place to do so.

I've been a proponent of building 'tentacles' to serve the main ION artery, such that 10s of thousands of more people can consider an up-to 15min walk to start their public transit journey to work/school/wherever.  (Would need 8 to 12 tentacles ideally IMO).

Brings us back to the Cambridge argument. So the idea is similar, a stick down Hespeler? The least pedestrian friendly Ontarion street out there?

[plam]

Now the concept that the majority of public transit in a big city serves ubran dwellers isn't new, but the number of above will still likely come at quite a surprise. If you want people to give up or park the car and get on, they need a viable place to do so.

I've been a proponent of building 'tentacles' to serve the main ION artery, such that 10s of thousands of more people can consider an up-to 15min walk to start their public transit journey to work/school/wherever.  (Would need 8 to 12 tentacles ideally IMO).

Brings us back to the Cambridge argument. So the idea is similar, a stick down Hespeler? The least pedestrian friendly Ontarion street out there?

Can't really use 250m to get the 4% number when you agree in this post that it's up to 15 minutes, which is more like 1km. I do have a math degree, so I know that quadrupling the radius gives you 16 times as much area.

[ZEBuilder]

PMTSAs are generally considered walking distance to a station. Those are generally an 800m radius around the station much larger than the 250m you've stated. The vast majority of people can walk 800m with no issue, people are just generally lazy and think its so far because they're used to the convenience of a car.

One just has to look at the distance to get bussed to elementary school and high school to realize that 250m is ridiculously small for a radius, and an 800m PMTSA is more realistic. For elementary students (1-8) they have to live 1.6km to get bussed, in highschool its 3.2km.

That 800m radius which is roughly the boundary for PMTSAs is is 10 times the area you stated, and a rough estimate for Kitchener's population is 10%, much higher than the 4% you've started, naturally that number will continue to grow as intensification is expected without PMTSAs, Kitchener only has about 1000 acres left to be developed (that isn't currently in construction), so densification will be the primary form of housing growth, which will occur along the LRT. 

Plus keep in mind that we invest billions upon billions of dollars into highways and road widening, realistically we should be doing the same for transit but we don't because people get bent out of shape over it.

It's going to take decades to design our cities in a way where cars are not king but building the LRT is a good first step but we can't let petty politics get in the way. Is it perfect, no but places like Essen, Germany have a metro, multiple tram lines, a large university, all with a similar population to KWC, so why should we not strive for something similar?

I've said it before here but the geotechnical conditons alone will make it expensive to build phase 2 but the longer it gets dragged on the more expensive it will get. One only has to look at how stupid the Homer Watson ramp from the 401, Hwy 8 ramp from the 401, King/Eagle/Fountain intersections are at rush hour to realize we need some kind of alternative. There is simply no way to rebuild those interchanges to increase capacity without having a BCR that's entirely unrealistic. 

One needs to think of alternatives, obviously better GO trains to the GTA (not just Toronto, think Mississauga and Hamilton) ontop of better last mile transit is what we truly need, which means we need to think about designing in a transit first attitude not a car first, which also comes down to costs, if we're spending billions on the Bradford Bypass (likely starting construction next year), why can we not be entitled to spend similar funds on public transit?

[JoeKW]

I took the LRT for the first time since Covid since I primarily work from home now. I'm not sure where else to share this but here is my trip report:

-I walked from Communitech to the Central Station LRT stop (<300m). It passes every 10 minutes so I didn’t need to refer to a schedule. I just left work when I wanted to leave.
-When the train arrived, I activated the pre-purchased $3 ticket on my phone in the GRT app
-I took the train to block line station, it was smooth and quiet and took about 15 minutes
-I got off the train and walked around the corner to the iExpress 201 stop. They have full time security guards at this station yelling at people to not cross the tracks until the flashing lights turn off… I asked and he said he’s there every day.
-The iExpress bus passes 5 or 6 times an hour and the next arrival was 4 minutes away.
-The bus took 12 minutes to my stop on Fischer-Hallman, it was louder than the LRT but still not too bad.
-I had an 800m walk home on a beautiful day. A little far but not too bad.

The trip took around 45 minutes total including the waiting and walking, a little over 2x longer than driving but it was pretty stress free and I saved on parking and whatever it costs to drive my car home.

[Momo26]

Glad you had a good, single transfer only, experience.

[Momo26]

Okay 250m might be a bit tight. I'm willing to put that out to 500m to 750m.

That still doesn't solve places requiring 2 busses + LRT combo.

And to my argument, it won't capture THAT many people to an LRT stop - the coverage simply isn't there.

[MidTowner]

Okay 250m might be a bit tight. I'm willing to put that out to 500m to 750m.

That still doesn't solve places requiring 2 busses + LRT combo.

And to my argument, it won't capture THAT many people to an LRT stop - the coverage simply isn't there.

The City of Kitchener, for instance, has relaxed parking requirements for lots within 800 metres of an LRT station.

For what it's worth, I walk about 900 metres to the LRT each morning to get to work. But my walk is an uncommonly pleasant one, and I think that matters. If the various municipalities invest in making journeys better for people on foot, they will be willing to walk further, and the number of people the Ion serves has effectively increased.

It's also been shown that people are willing to walk further for fast, more frequent service. Ion should be at 8-minute headways already, and when it is, more people will be willing to walk to that. Likewise if some savings in time can be eked out on the existing route.

[ac3r]

We should have had the 7.5 minute headways they planned on the day they started it. And by now, they should be running 2 LRV units linked to improve capacity. Alas, most people don't use the LRT now unless they have to because it's a waste of time. The average person would rather drive a beater, pay for gas/parking and so on than take some piece of shit streetcar you can walk faster than half the time, not to mention likely have to rely on a bus or two just to utilize it in the fist place.

[Acitta]

We should have had the 7.5 minute headways they planned on the day they started it. And by now, they should be running 2 LRV units linked to improve capacity. Alas, most people don't use the LRT now unless they have to because it's a waste of time. The average person would rather drive a beater, pay for gas/parking and so on than take some piece of shit streetcar you can walk faster than half the time, not to mention likely have to rely on a bus or two just to utilize it in the fist place.

It is not a "piece of shit streetcar". It is a very nice vehicle that is very pleasant to ride. It is only because we have too many car-brained idiots in this part of the world that we don't have more lines so that you don't have to ride a bus to get to it. Anyhow, what is wrong with taking a bus? We have a good bus system in the region that is well utilized.

[ac3r]

It is bad and it's okay to admit that. Relative to the rest of the developed world, it's awful. If it gets you personally from A to B fine then that's great, but the reality is that it is bad.

Blaming "car-brained idiots" is fun for the meme but the quality of the LRT has basically nothing to do with cars. It's bad because they didn't want to spend much money on it. They wanted a prop and they got it. It was a tool to spur investment in residential developments, not a tool to develop a true rapid transit system for a region of this many people. If they wanted that, they wouldn't have gone as far as to cut the number of benches and trashcans on the platform just to save money lmao. We knew this region was going to be growing FAST and they should have taken that into consideration by properly investing in rapid transit.

It's okay for a casual ride, going short distances or if it's the only option you have but it isn't a good transit system. That's fact.

Hell when it comes to the GRT they're so cheap they can't be bothered to clear snow from bus stops...now they just close certain stops during the winter to make it easier. In Canada! Lmfao. Name one urban area on this planet with about 700'000 people that can't be bothered to clear the fucking bus stops of snow or put trash cans at all of them...

[Acitta]

It is bad and it's okay to admit that. Relative to the rest of the developed world, it's awful. If it gets you personally from A to B fine then that's great, but the reality is that it is bad.

Blaming "car-brained idiots" is fun for the meme but the quality of the LRT has basically nothing to do with cars. It's bad because they didn't want to spend much money on it. They wanted a prop and they got it. It was a tool to spur investment in residential developments, not a tool to develop a true rapid transit system for a region of this many people. If they wanted that, they wouldn't have gone as far as to cut the number of benches and trashcans on the platform just to save money lmao. We knew this region was going to be growing FAST and they should have taken that into consideration by properly investing in rapid transit.

It's okay for a casual ride, going short distances or if it's the only option you have but it isn't a good transit system. That's fact.

Hell when it comes to the GRT they're so cheap they can't be bothered to clear snow from bus stops...now they just close certain stops during the winter to make it easier. In Canada! Lmfao. Name one urban area on this planet with about 700'000 people that can't be bothered to clear the fucking bus stops of snow or put trash cans at all of them...

I agree with you on the snow clearing. As someone who spent two months in the hospital recovering from a spinal infection that took away my ability to walk, getting around last winter was hell. Even near the hospital, it was difficult.

[tomh009]

We should have had the 7.5 minute headways they planned on the day they started it. And by now, they should be running 2 LRV units linked to improve capacity. Alas, most people don't use the LRT now unless they have to because it's a waste of time.

If most people don't want it and it's a waste of time, then why should we double the capacity?

[ac3r]

Because as you increase capacity and headways, ridership generally goes up. Single LRVs that are standing room only half of the day and 10-15 minute frequencies isn't really enticing anyone to leave their cars in the driveway, especially if they've gotta rely on the loser cruisers to get to and from the stations which themselves had abysmal schedules. I'd guess at least 90-95% of passengers only use it because they have to, not because they want to.

[Momo26]

Hard to disagree with that...in north America especially, people use public transit because they have to, not because they want to lol

In 90% (approx) of Can and USA, public transit isn't even an option.