General Business Updates and News

[Kodra24]

This is more of a general business post for Canada, not just Waterloo Region, but still very concerning nonetheless

[BormanConstruction]

This is more of a general business post for Canada, not just Waterloo Region, but still very concerning nonetheless

Sadly, this is a trend most have been talking about one way or another. The prevailing theory is that a lot of investment that would have normally gone towards business start-ups has found it's way into real estate and rent-seeking, rather than more productive investments.

[tomh009]

The short answer is that there is way more investment capital south of the border, chasing relatively fewer potential startups: it's a "buyers' market" for startup investment.

A few things to note: The chart is specifically for startups that raise capital, not for all companies. And the result for 2024 seems like an outlier, I would be cautious about extrapolating from that and assuming everything will be 30% in the future. Finally, the "location" is presumably the head office location, it does not necessarily mean that all the operations are in the US.

[Kodra24]

I disagree - it is obviously a trend, and an alarming one at that

It outlines that Canada is getting less and less consideration amongst Canadians on whether or not they want to set-up shop here, and the reasons are plenty - I read somewhere, need to look it up, that up to 70% of UoW grads in certain fields head to the US to either start a company or gain experience/employment

At the most recent Liberal convention an "exit" tax of $500K is gaining traction - this is for Canadians that want to leave the country and become non-residents, despite a departure tax already in place

[plam]

I disagree - it is obviously a trend, and an alarming one at that

It outlines that Canada is getting less and less consideration amongst Canadians on whether or not they want to set-up shop here, and the reasons are plenty - I read somewhere, need to look it up, that up to 70% of UoW grads in certain fields head to the US to either start a company or gain experience/employment

At the most recent Liberal convention an "exit" tax of $500K is gaining traction - this is for Canadians that want to leave the country and become non-residents, despite a departure tax already in place

US salaries have been significantly higher in CS-related fields, so yes, I have observed that about 70% of new grads in these fields go to the US. The vast majority do not start a company. They work for big tech firms and probably make $200k/year these days.

Given the current Liberal leader, there's no way that such an exit tax would pass. Sounds like fearmongering to me.

[panamaniac]

I doubt that such a tax would pass court scrutiny, given the mobility rightrs enshrined in the Charter.

[tomh009]

The 70% figure is from this study, and that is specifically for software engineering grads, not computer engineering or computer science.
https://brocku.ca/social-sciences/politi...-Drain.pdf

Here are their migration rates (the data is from 2015-16), showing 40% migration rates for the technical programs:

   

One additional thing to note is that somewhere close to 40% of the students in those programs are foreign students. How many of those leaving are foreign students is unknown, but the number of grads remaining in Canada is probably not so much different than the number of Canadian students enrolling in the programs.

[plam]

The 70% figure is from this study, and that is specifically for software engineering grads, not computer engineering or computer science.
https://brocku.ca/social-sciences/politi...-Drain.pdf

Here are their migration rates (the data is from 2015-16), showing 40% migration rates for the technical programs:



One additional thing to note is that somewhere close to 40% of the students in those programs are foreign students. How many of those leaving are foreign students is unknown, but the number of grads remaining in Canada is probably not so much different than the number of Canadian students enrolling in the programs.

Migration to the US has always been significant. I read about engineer migration to the US 100 years ago in a book.

I used to be Director of SE at Waterloo and the numbers are consistent with my surveys. I obviously did not survey non-SE students, so I can't say anything about that. I think that one confounder here is that the SE number might be dominated by Waterloo, while the CS and CE numbers less so. I wouldn't be surprised if the Waterloo CE and CS numbers were higher than the quoted number.

SE and CE at Waterloo are 90% domestic students. I don't have the number for CS.

[tomh009]

Migration to the US has always been significant. I read about engineer migration to the US 100 years ago in a book.

I used to be Director of SE at Waterloo and the numbers are consistent with my surveys. I obviously did not survey non-SE students, so I can't say anything about that. I think that one confounder here is that the SE number might be dominated by Waterloo, while the CS and CE numbers less so. I wouldn't be surprised if the Waterloo CE and CS numbers were higher than the quoted number.

SE and CE at Waterloo are 90% domestic students. I don't have the number for CS.

I think CS (and Math in general) is significantly lower than that.

For sure, the US tech giants will tend to cherry-pick the top software engineering (smaller program) and computer science (larger one) students and entice them with packages that most Canadian companies are unable to match.

Anecdotally, I had two opportunities to take US jobs, ~30 and ~15 years ago, at very nice compensation packages (though much less than people get today). In retrospect, I have no regrets at all about deciding to stay in Canada. Everybody has their own priorities and makes their own choices, though.

[creative]

My son graduated from Western 11 years ago with a philosophy degree. Worked for Shopify in Ottawa for 8 years as a front end developer among other things making pretty decent money. He is now technically retired at the age of 34. Total compensation plus timing can be important.