King-Victoria Transit Hub

[tomh009]

It may well be that the timelines/sequences have changed over the last two years.

[BuildingScout]

I think those that are dreaming of 2019 completion date over in the grt thread are too optimistic on how the fast the process is going to be and underestimating the complexities that it will require working with a number of bureaucracies (GrandLinq, CN, MetroLynx, etc.).
 

I think you are misreading the comments there. We are saying that this could physically be planned and built in three years, but we fully acknowledge that in this town everything related to construction moves like molasses so likely won't open until well beyond 2019.

[jamincan]

Waterloo Region is one of the few areas in this country where they actually get things done in a reasonable time frame. It's one of the things I love about this place.

[REnerd]

I think those that are dreaming of 2019 completion date over in the grt thread are too optimistic on how the fast the process is going to be and underestimating the complexities that it will require working with a number of bureaucracies (GrandLinq, CN, MetroLynx, etc.).
 

I think you are misreading the comments there. We are saying that this could physically be planned and built in three years, but we fully acknowledge that in this town everything related to construction moves like molasses so likely won't open until well beyond 2019.

Anything 'could' be possible.

However, it is not just construction pace that will slow this down.  This is a giant undertaking which is anticipated to have hundreds of thousands of square feet of real estate developed.  Finding the eventual developer with enough faith in the Kitchener market to make such a commitment will take time and lots of due diligence (for both the Region and the future developer/partner).

Also, I would be willing to wager that no one will touch this until there is a better train schedule between Kitchener and Toronto.   Tenants of any retail will want foot-traffic that will come from trains....

Will be interesting to watch this unfold...

[Viewfromthe42]

Let's just be clear: The documents say a 2019 start, with completion 3-4 years later, for offsite elements, e.g. the trail and rail facilities. So yes, even the region does not see anything opening in 2019, other than holes in the ground.

[MidTowner]

And that means that Grand River Transit will be without a downtown terminal for three years or more, doesn't it? Interesting.

[tomh009]

Let's just be clear: The documents say a 2019 start, with completion 3-4 years later, for offsite elements, e.g. the trail and rail facilities. So yes, even the region does not see anything opening in 2019, other than holes in the ground.

It's still all very preliminary; this is what the regional documents referenced above say (highlights mine):

For budgeting purposes, it is assumed that construction of the Transit Hub begins in 2019, but the land may be available as early as late 2017. A second phase of construction is assumed for 2025, but could be accelerated to an earlier date depending on available funding to achieve full buildout of the on- and off-site infrastructure by 2021/2022.

Note the level of uncertainty on the schedule!

In any case, their concept has a bus loop with only five bays (including Greyhound?), so really they are not expecting many GRT bus routes to stop at the Victoria St station.  The Charles St station will be decommissioned not because Victoria St station is ready, but because the bus lines will have been reconfigured to connect with ION instead of all going to a central hub.

[BuildingScout]

Anything 'could' be possible.

However, it is not just construction pace that will slow this down.  This is a giant undertaking which is anticipated to have hundreds of thousands of square feet of real estate developed.  Finding the eventual developer with enough faith in the Kitchener market to make such a commitment will take time and lots of due diligence (for both the Region and the future developer/partner).

Also, I would be willing to wager that no one will touch this until there is a better train schedule between Kitchener and Toronto.   Tenants of any retail will want foot-traffic that will come from trains....

Will be interesting to watch this unfold...

By 'could' I mean it is realistic if there was the will to do it. They would have to (1) accelerate the planning process (2) bring in some of the big guns both in terms of developers and construction firms, but it is doable. However as I said, we are slow central here and I do not expect this project to be completed before 2026 or 2027.

[Canard]

I don't think we're slow here.

[Markster]

Yeah, I really don't see KW as being especially slow.
We have our fast projects, and our slow projects, just like anywhere else.

[REnerd]

Agreed.  Think about how quickly the Breithaupt Block happened once tenants were secured.  Or 8 Queen. 

It is all about leasing and sales, not construction.  For example, City Center was put up very quickly once they hit sales targets (which took forever).  

If we want to talk about the 'slowness' in the market for office leasing, that is a whole different conversation that would dovetail nicely into why the transit hub is going to take a long, long time to be completed (IMO).

[MidTowner]

I think we should to a certain extent stop conflating the transit hub portion of the project, and all of the retail, commercial and residential portion of the project. It’s definitely going to take ages for sufficient demand to build up for all of the space we’ve seen proposed at this site and for the site to be built out completely. But the infrastructure needed to give transit users a place to transfer from one mode to another, that could be built in a few years (but probably won’t be).

[LesPio]

The latest update in the news. Region plans to spend over $40 million on downtown Kitchener transit hub


http://www.therecord.com/news-story/6330...kitchener/

http://www.570news.com/2016/02/24/region...ansit-hub/

[Canard]

This is such awesome news!!

[MidTowner]

There are a few more interesting details about this in the Kitchener Post this week, including mention of a plan for a $150 million request from the federal government for this and also the Northfield maintenance facility.