ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[ac3r]

Someone crashed into the LRT today. This has to be like the 5-6th collision at this intersection. It's notorious for it.

Photo from Draculion on Reddit.

[panamaniac]

Illegal left? Running the light? Over-arching stupidity?

[ijmorlan]

Illegal left?  Running the light?  Over-arching stupidity?

I don’t think there is any legal movement that could result in that outcome. This is King at Agnes I believe.

https://goo.gl/maps/drgXK4sahBZQPZWKA

No turns are allowed off of King: both left turns and U-turns are explicitly forbidden by signs. Given the orientation after the crash, I don’t see how a northbound vehicle could have ended up like that. Maybe they were southbound turning left (or U-turning)? If they started on Agnes they would have to run a red to end up like that. And we all know the signal timings are fairly conservative, so they definitely didn’t run a yellow or even a “dark yellow”; if that’s what happened it had been red for a long time.

I wonder how much of a problem it would be to forbid all movements across the LRT track? That would mostly mean left turns off Agnes, but also straight through movements involving the alleyway and left turns off the alleyway. With all movements forbidden, the curbs could be re-built as barrier curbs except for small gaps at the pedestrian crossings, which might help educate the neutronium brains of the problem drivers.

[Acitta]

Someone crashed into the LRT today. This has to be like the 5-6th collision at this intersection. It's notorious for it.

The headline in The Record is "Car and LRT collide, sending one person to hospital in Kitchener", as if the car driver wasn't involved in causing the collision.

[danbrotherston]

The thing is, this kind of collision happens probably...2-3 times a day. But you don't hear about it when it's two sedans. It doesn't even make the news, and injuries are less likely.

The problem is not the LRT...the problem is bad drivers, and maybe if we'd been reporting on 2-3 crashes per day, we'd be in a better place on road safety. A headline of "three more cars crashed today, one into an LRV" make the problem more apparent.

[tomh009]

It sure looks like the driver was making a right turn on red, in spite of the signage forbidding the same (plus an approaching train).

[danbrotherston]

It sure looks like the driver was making a right turn on red, in spite of the signage forbidding the same (plus an approaching train).

Right?

A right turn at this intersection should not intersect the tracks. Left perhaps?

[ijmorlan]

It sure looks like the driver was making a right turn on red, in spite of the signage forbidding the same (plus an approaching train).

Has the signage been changed? Google Streetview shows no right turn on red prohibitions at this intersection. In any case, as another poster observed, there are no right turn movements which conflict with the tracks. If somebody turning right hit an LRV, it has nothing to do with compliance with signals and signs but instead involves a complete inability to make the turn at all.

[neonjoe]

Could the Kia have been heading directly across the street into the driveway?
If no straight through movements are allowed, this intersection could benefit from flexible bollards. Ugly - YES but they still allow emergency vehicles into the ROW.
BTW has anyone ever seen emergency vehicles using the ROW since system launch? I remember the region making a big deal that the ROW would still accommodate emergency vehicles, this compromise seems to be causing far more issues than it solves.

[tomh009]

Could the Kia have been heading directly across the street into the driveway?

I think you are right (and I was wrong), he was heading across. Maybe from Agnes into the driveway -- on a red light? Or else coming EB on King St, and making a left turn into the driveway (or a U-turn), both of which are signed and prohibited.

[danbrotherston]

I think straight through would be permitted, but the driver would have been facing a red light. My guess is that he tried to make a left/u-turn.

Illegal left is much more common than outright running a long red light without even bother to look for cross traffic.

[bravado]

I think straight through would be permitted, but the driver would have been facing a red light. My guess is that he tried to make a left/u-turn.

Illegal left is much more common than outright running a long red light without even bother to look for cross traffic.

In their defence, maybe they had someplace really important to get to on their left

[ijmorlan]

I think straight through would be permitted, but the driver would have been facing a red light. My guess is that he tried to make a left/u-turn.

Illegal left is much more common than outright running a long red light without even bother to look for cross traffic.

I don’t see how someone turning left could end up in that position. But maybe.

Agreed that most red light running is “around the edges” so to speak — very few people will just simply blow through a solid red without any mitigation of any kind.

[danbrotherston]

I think straight through would be permitted, but the driver would have been facing a red light. My guess is that he tried to make a left/u-turn.

Illegal left is much more common than outright running a long red light without even bother to look for cross traffic.

I don’t see how someone turning left could end up in that position. But maybe.

Agreed that most red light running is “around the edges” so to speak — very few people will just simply blow through a solid red without any mitigation of any kind.

Someone turning left from King into the alley (which is not a permitted turn) could end up in that position if their vehicle was dragged a significant distance.

I do agree that it'd be surprising to see a vehicle dragged that far, it's not that an LRV doesn't have the momentum to do it, but I'd expect it to be pushed away rather than dragged.

But maybe I'm wrong. Honestly, nothing surprises me anymore...a driver blowing through a red light without even glancing for a train...sure. Totally on brand.

[ijmorlan]

I don’t see how someone turning left could end up in that position. But maybe.

Agreed that most red light running is “around the edges” so to speak — very few people will just simply blow through a solid red without any mitigation of any kind.

Someone turning left from King into the alley (which is not a permitted turn) could end up in that position if their vehicle was dragged a significant distance.

I do agree that it'd be surprising to see a vehicle dragged that far, it's not that an LRV doesn't have the momentum to do it, but I'd expect it to be pushed away rather than dragged.

But maybe I'm wrong. Honestly, nothing surprises me anymore...a driver blowing through a red light without even glancing for a train...sure. Totally on brand.

Yes, sorry, I’m not sure what I was thinking. A northbound vehicle turning left wouldn’t (probably, I think) end up like that, but southbound or even eastbound might.