The COVID-19 pandemic

[Rainrider22]

There are a great number of involved agencies both within Canada and within the other involved country (in this case the US).  Within each agency, they need to review the orders as written, then put their own language into it.  In some cases it is a job justification....  I have done both Mexico and Costa Rica,  fun times...

But these things can largely happen in parallel.

It just seems there is no urgency to resolving this situation, even though it continues to cause harm to our relationship with China.

Actually they cant do it in parallel.   That is not the way it works.  The requesting country has to do up their own warrants and follow their process.  Then the order is forwarded through their own Attorney General.  After approval from their Attorney General, the Order goes to the Country detaining the prisoner, or subject of the arrest warrant.   Once received by this Country, there is a hearing process that occurs that is applicable with the detaining country.   Once a decision is rendered, the detained person may apply for appeal depending on the country. 
Once that all is done, then there are further discussions with respect to the action plan...   It is very long and drawn out.  Put COVID in the mix, and you have even more delays now....

[Acitta]

Ya, but the Liberals are always trying to please everybody and end up pleasing nobody.

Well, I haven't seen them pleasing me, which is why I did not vote for them last election. The fact that they have bought a pipeline but didn't do electoral reform...well, it takes a lot to make me disappointed in one of the two major parties.

We agree on this.

[plam]

By the way the vaccine isn't even approved yet in either Australia or New Zealand. Then again there is no community transmission (probably). But Canada isn't doing so badly on vaccines. And there are a lot of countries doing worse in general, but a bunch who are doing better. As Canadians we should still be advocating for even better though.

Pfizer is supposed to arrive here in NZ by end of first quarter, but only 375k doses so it'll get the border workers and super high risk groups. (Population is 5M).

[tomh009]

By the way the vaccine isn't even approved yet in either Australia or New Zealand. Then again there is no community transmission (probably). But Canada isn't doing so badly on vaccines. And there are a lot of countries doing worse in general, but a bunch who are doing better. As Canadians we should still be advocating for even better though.

Japan, South Korea and Hong Kong are also yet to approve any vaccines (Taiwan and Singapore are further along).

[ijmorlan]

But these things can largely happen in parallel.

It just seems there is no urgency to resolving this situation, even though it continues to cause harm to our relationship with China.

Actually they cant do it in parallel.   That is not the way it works.  The requesting country has to do up their own warrants and follow their process.  Then the order is forwarded through their own Attorney General.  After approval from their Attorney General, the Order goes to the Country detaining the prisoner, or subject of the arrest warrant.   Once received by this Country, there is a hearing process that occurs that is applicable with the detaining country.   Once a decision is rendered, the detained person may apply for appeal depending on the country. 
Once that all is done, then there are further discussions with respect to the action plan...   It is very long and drawn out.  Put COVID in the mix, and you have even more delays now....

My point is, I don’t care about any of that. Two years is longer than long enough. Remember, both Canada and the US theoretically have “innocent until proven guilty”. Two years is way too long to keep a legally innocent person or jail (or even under house arrest), and if justice is to be served then all the various agencies, offices, and people involved simply have to work within a much shorter time limit. Any argument that it’s totally OK for it to take this long is just biffle-baffle.

Note: I’m still interested in explanations of why it takes so long, but find it nearly inconceivable that any such explanation could actually justify the length of time, as an ethical or moral matter.

Although in this case as I mentioned I have an idea that the defendant is dragging things out, but unfortunately I can’t point to a source for that information so it’s not exactly conclusive.

[danbrotherston]

By the way the vaccine isn't even approved yet in either Australia or New Zealand. Then again there is no community transmission (probably). But Canada isn't doing so badly on vaccines. And there are a lot of countries doing worse in general, but a bunch who are doing better. As Canadians we should still be advocating for even better though.

Pfizer is supposed to arrive here in NZ by end of first quarter, but only 375k doses so it'll get the border workers and super high risk groups. (Population is 5M).

Very interesting! Seems like vaccines weren't a high priority for them. While I might not agree, I certainly cannot argue with their results, they are living a relatively normal life compared to even the best of times here.

[danbrotherston]

Actually they cant do it in parallel.   That is not the way it works.  The requesting country has to do up their own warrants and follow their process.  Then the order is forwarded through their own Attorney General.  After approval from their Attorney General, the Order goes to the Country detaining the prisoner, or subject of the arrest warrant.   Once received by this Country, there is a hearing process that occurs that is applicable with the detaining country.   Once a decision is rendered, the detained person may apply for appeal depending on the country. 
Once that all is done, then there are further discussions with respect to the action plan...   It is very long and drawn out.  Put COVID in the mix, and you have even more delays now....

My point is, I don’t care about any of that. Two years is longer than long enough. Remember, both Canada and the US theoretically have “innocent until proven guilty”. Two years is way too long to keep a legally innocent person or jail (or even under house arrest), and if justice is to be served then all the various agencies, offices, and people involved simply have to work within a much shorter time limit. Any argument that it’s totally OK for it to take this long is just biffle-baffle.

Note: I’m still interested in explanations of why it takes so long, but find it nearly inconceivable that any such explanation could actually justify the length of time, as an ethical or moral matter.

Although in this case as I mentioned I have an idea that the defendant is dragging things out, but unfortunately I can’t point to a source for that information so it’s not exactly conclusive.

If you think that's too long for an innocent person to be kept under some form of restriction as a result of pending legal actions, I've got news for you about the average time people spend in that situation. And yes, it is terrible, we should improve our criminal justice system. Ironically, I suspect, although do not have actual data, that wealthy people probably spend more time in this limbo because they have the resources to delay and defer trials, is always a detriment to whomever must meet a burden of proof to have a trial deferred.

That being said, this is clearly not a normal situation, and clearly has implications for our foreign policy. It should have been made a priority to deal with it as fast as possible. Every hearing scheduled at soon as legally permissable, every legal filing happening in the minimum amount of time feasible, etc. etc. And I just do not see that happening.

On the issue of innocent people being punished, Kalief Browder is the tragic story of an innocent (he is ABSOLUTELY innocent, in the legal sense, no charges were EVER proved against him, and almost certainly in the moral sense, it seems likely he didn't commit any bad acts) teenager (he was arrested at age 16) who was imprisoned by the state of new york for 3 years, who eventually, after his release committed suicide almost certainly directly as a result of the state of new york stealing his childhood.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/09/nyreg...icide.html

It is a really horrifying story.

[ac3r]

By the way the vaccine isn't even approved yet in either Australia or New Zealand. Then again there is no community transmission (probably).

New Zealand unfortunately found two cases of the South African variant the other day: https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/nation...rus-cases/

[plam]

By the way the vaccine isn't even approved yet in either Australia or New Zealand. Then again there is no community transmission (probably).

New Zealand unfortunately found two cases of the South African variant the other day: https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/nation...rus-cases/

Hello! I'm in New Zealand! Life is incomparably more normal here than in Ontario.

I reiterate: there is no known community transmission. These cases were found in people who had just exited managed isolation: they presumably got it at the end of their stay after the day 12 test. The government has posted a list of places the 3 cases have been and thousands of people have gotten tested, all negative.

The Ministry of Health said it had found no evidence of community transmission from the new Covid-19 cases. Investigations are continuing into how they caught the virus.

https://www.thespinoff.co.nz/society/28-...man-hotel/

[tomh009]

THURSDAY 2021-01-28

Waterloo Region reported 50 new cases today (7.6% of the active cases) and one more for yesterday for a total of 73; 523 new cases for the week (-67), averaging 9.5% of active cases -- back below 10%! 626 active cases, -232 in the last seven days.

Next testing report on Friday.

Ontario reported 2,093 new cases today with a seven-day average of 2,129 (-62). 2,491 recoveries and 56 deaths translated to a drop of 454 active cases and a new total of 21,478. -4,583 active cases for the week and 400 deaths (57 per day). 64,664 tests for a positivity rate of 3.24%, the fourth time below 4% this week (and the weekends are always higher). The positivity rate is averaging 4.25% for the past seven days, compared to 4.92% for the preceding seven.

358 patients in ICU (-17 today, -30 for the week), and 1,338 total hospital beds in use (-195 for the week).

• 123 cases in Niagara: 27.5 per 100K
  
• 331 cases in Peel: 24.0 per 100K
  
• 700 cases in Toronto: 23.9 per 100K
  
• 25 cases in Chatham-Kent: 23.6 per 100K
  
• 228 cases in York: 20.5 per 100K
  
• 18 cases in Huron Perth: 18.4 per 100K
  
• 67 cases in Windsor-Essex: 17.2 per 100K
  
• 94 cases in Hamilton: 16.2 per 100K
  
• 43 cases in Wellington-Dufferin-Guelph: 15.8 per 100K
  
• 30 cases in Eastern Ontario: 14.8 per 100K
  
• 85 cases in Durham: 13.2 per 100K
  
• 64 cases in Halton: 11.7 per 100K
  
• 15 cases in Lambton: 11.5 per 100K
  
• 53 cases in Simcoe-Muskoka: 9.8 per 100K
  
• 14 cases in Thunder Bay: 9.3 per 100K
  
• 37 cases in Middlesex-London: 9.1 per 100K
  
• 56 cases in Waterloo: 9.1 per 100K (based on provincial reporting)
  
• 16 cases in Southwestern Ontario: 8.0 per 100K
  
• 45 cases in Ottawa: 4.5 per 100K
  
• 6 cases in Brant: 4.4 per 100K
  
• 7 cases in Leeds, Grenville & Lanark: 4.1 per 100K
  

[plam]

The Spinoff additionally writes:

At this stage it looks like New Zealand may have dodged another coronavirus-infused bullet, with no evidence yet of community transmission of Covid-19.

However – as (Director-General of Health) Ashley Bloomfield said earlier this week – we’re not breathing out just yet.

And: "New Zealand's economy continues to recover faster than expected from Covid-19".

[tomh009]

10-day averages for key regions in Ontario, plus the weekly trend as of 2021-01-29 (posting this every two days).

Region	Cases today	per 100K	10-day average	per 100K	Weekly trend
Peel	295	21.3	391	28.3	-34%
Toronto	595	20.3	714	24.4	-29%
Windsor-Essex	45	11.6	86	22.0	-70%
Niagara	64	14.3	98	21.8	-15%
Wellington-Dufferin-Guelph	83	30.5	56	20.6	-15%
York	170	15.3	200	18.1	-23%
Huron Perth	4	4.1	14	14.0	-45%
Waterloo	91	14.7	85	13.7	-37%
Hamilton	53	9.2	77	13.3	-10%
Chatham-Kent	15	14.2	14	13.1	+65%
Thunder Bay	24	16.0	19	12.7	-32%
Middlesex-London	48	11.9	51	12.5	-45%
Halton	54	9.8	63	11.5	-17%
Eastern Ontario	8	3.9	22	11.0	-29%
Durham	59	9.1	71	11.0	-17%
Lambton	9	6.9	14	10.8	-64%
Simcoe-Muskoka	58	10.7	56	10.3	-42%
Southwestern Ontario	24	12.0	19	9.3	-18%
Ottawa	53	5.3	79	7.9	-57%
Brant	9	6.6	9	6.8	+18%
Ontario total					-30%

[ac3r]

Big surprise, WRPS and their union agree that it was good that the police did absolutely nothing about Trinity Bible Chapel last weekend: https://outline.com/APLrhp

Also, new travel restrictions to be announced, including mandatory quarantine in a specific quarantine site at a travelers expense - something that we should have been doing from the start like other nations that are now living pretty normally...

[ac3r]

Moderna to slash shipments of vaccine to Canada by 20-25% for the month of February: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/moderna...-1.5893307

[tomh009]

Also, new travel restrictions to be announced, including mandatory quarantine in a specific quarantine site at a travelers expense - something that we should have been doing from the start like other nations that are now living pretty normally...

It seems that there will be another PCR test on arrival, and then the mandatory stay at an approved hotel is just until the test results arrive. After that, the rest of the quarantine is at home, but with "increased surveillance" (follow-up phone calls?) and then another PCR test at day 10. This process is not immediate but will be put in place in the next few weeks or so.