The COVID-19 pandemic

[JoeKW]

They had to recruit many more people who started later than the original group. I don't think they will do anything until they have enough data from all the groups.

[ac3r]

Your daily dose of mass media fear mongering brought to you by TorStar...

A new COVID-19 variant ‘Mu’ has been detected in Ontario. Just how worried should we be about reports it could be vaccine resistant?: https://outline.com/v8C8cJ

I kind of wish the media would stop with this stuff, though I understand it's their obligation. Every virus is going to mutate, but each trending story on social media about about a variant, mixed with ignorant pundit questions like "Should we be worried? Does it make the vaccine redundant? Do we need to make any changes?" just throws people into a panic. One step forward, two steps back...

[ijmorlan]

Your daily dose of mass media fear mongering brought to you by TorStar...

A new COVID-19 variant ‘Mu’ has been detected in Ontario. Just how worried should we be about reports it could be vaccine resistant?: https://outline.com/v8C8cJ

I kind of wish the media would stop with this stuff, though I understand it's their obligation. Every virus is going to mutate, but each trending story on social media about about a variant, mixed with ignorant pundit questions like "Should we be worried? Does it make the vaccine redundant? Do we need to make any changes?" just throws people into a panic. One step forward, two steps back...

I thought Mu was old news. According to this video from a source I consider reliable, Mu peaked several weeks ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zLL050R-6I

[tomh009]

Your daily dose of mass media fear mongering brought to you by TorStar...

A new COVID-19 variant ‘Mu’ has been detected in Ontario. Just how worried should we be about reports it could be vaccine resistant?: https://outline.com/v8C8cJ

I kind of wish the media would stop with this stuff, though I understand it's their obligation. Every virus is going to mutate, but each trending story on social media about about a variant, mixed with ignorant pundit questions like "Should we be worried? Does it make the vaccine redundant? Do we need to make any changes?" just throws people into a panic. One step forward, two steps back...

Yeah.

At the moment, at least, Delta is far better than any other variant at doing what it is that is a virus's ultimate goal: to make more viruses. And that ensures that it will be dominant until and unless a variant emerges that can reproduce even more prolifically.

[tomh009]

They had to recruit many more people who started later than the original group.  I don't think they will do anything until they have enough data from all the groups.

This happened back in July. I think the FDA requested 5000 (maybe?) subjects.

Pfizer is still saying that they expect to submit for Health Canada approval before the end of the year, and FDA submission will likely be somewhat earlier. Assuming FDA grants their authorization, the Health Canada approval may be fairly quick.

[JoeKW]

Everything I'm hearing from USA and Canada still says December/January/Early Winter but I would be ecstatic if it comes sooner.

[tomh009]

BioNTech (the developer of the BioNTech-Pfizer vaccine) says they are about to submit for approval for the 5-11 age group.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronaviru...-1.5579969

This is a bit baffling, as I thought Pfizer was making the application. And that they were delayed.

Nevertheless, if this gets us vaccine for the kids sooner, it's a good thing.

[taylortbb]

This is a bit baffling, as I thought Pfizer was making the application. And that they were delayed.

Pfizer helped BioNTech scale manufacturing, and being the better known name ended up with all the credit. But the actual license holder for all the current "Pfizer" approvals in Canada is solely BioNTech.

[jeffster]

So just one or two more lockdowns and we're (maybe) free! I kid. Hopefully we can get through the colder months without too many issues, and by spring get children vaccinated.

No more lockdowns. Children are very low risk of hospitalizations. Use vaccine passport for everything else, plus masks.

I imagine at some point we're getting 3rd shots as well.

[ac3r]

I imagine at some point we're getting 3rd shots as well.

NACI made an announcement this morning about booster shots for the immunocompromised, though haven't come to a conclusion on whether or not they'll be offered to the general public as they are unsure whether or not it would be better to release updated vaccines for future variants, which would probably be better, as that's how things are done with influenza vaccines: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/third-cov...-1.6171144

[tomh009]

This is a bit baffling, as I thought Pfizer was making the application. And that they were delayed.

Pfizer helped BioNTech scale manufacturing, and being the better known name ended up with all the credit. But the actual license holder for all the current "Pfizer" approvals in Canada is solely BioNTech.

That makes more sense, then. Thanks for clarifying!

[danbrotherston]

So just one or two more lockdowns and we're (maybe) free! I kid. Hopefully we can get through the colder months without too many issues, and by spring get children vaccinated.

No more lockdowns. Children are very low risk of hospitalizations. Use vaccine passport for everything else, plus masks.

I imagine at some point we're getting 3rd shots as well.

Plenty of adults are not vaccinated, Alberta is cancelling non-emergency surgeries.

No...there'll be more lockdowns. There didn't have to be, but there will be.

By the way, choosing to infect our children with a dangerous disease with unknown long term consequences, where some will still die, is not something I'm okay with, but I'm disturbed to learn that a lot of people are surprisingly okay with killing some children.

What is frustrating me to no end is that if we did as you suggest, broadly applied vaccine mandates, and ubiquitous masking, (as well as good precautions in schools), we'd avoid this easily. But we aren't doing that.

[jeffster]

Current 7-day Covid-19 cases per 100k

• Windsor-Essex County Health Unit 116.5
• Chatham-Kent Public Health 95.9
• City of Hamilton Public Health Services 62.0
• Brant County Health Unit 53.5
• Niagara Region Public Health 46.6
• York Region Public Health 39.6
• Peel Public Health 36.9
• Toronto Public Health 33.4
• Simcoe Muskoka District Health Unit 31.9
• Eastern Ontario Health Unit 31.1

• Region of Waterloo Public Health and Emergency Services 27.9

• Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit 13.2
• Hastings Prince Edward Public Health 13.1
• Grey Bruce Health Unit 10.6
• Porcupine Health Unit 9.6
• Algoma Public Health 9.6
• Northwestern Health Unit 9.1
• Thunder Bay District Health Unit 8.7
• Leeds, Grenville & Lanark District Health Unit 6.4
• Renfrew County and District Health Unit 5.5
• Timiskaming Health Unit 0.0

• TOTAL ONTARIO 34.3

[jeffster]

No more lockdowns. Children are very low risk of hospitalizations. Use vaccine passport for everything else, plus masks.

I imagine at some point we're getting 3rd shots as well.

Plenty of adults are not vaccinated, Alberta is cancelling non-emergency surgeries.

No...there'll be more lockdowns. There didn't have to be, but there will be.

By the way, choosing to infect our children with a dangerous disease with unknown long term consequences, where some will still die, is not something I'm okay with, but I'm disturbed to learn that a lot of people are surprisingly okay with killing some children.

What is frustrating me to no end is that if we did as you suggest, broadly applied vaccine mandates, and ubiquitous masking, (as well as good precautions in schools), we'd avoid this easily. But we aren't doing that.

Good grief Dan, that is ignorant as hell. There are plenty more things more dangerous to children than covid-19, and I don't see anyone here saying anything about it. But clearly YOU'RE willing to risk a child's health with a vaccine that might be more risky than the disease itself. Only reason why they even vaccinated youngsters is to protect old people like you, not the other way round.

For reference: 16 children (and young adults), ages 0-19 have died of covid-19 in Canada. This is versus 26,739 for all other age groups (combined) -- in Canada.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228...da-by-age/

In the USA, they have had 486 deaths (0-18) out of 643,857 (total).

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-CO.../nr4s-juj3

Estimated death rate for vaccination is 0.00002 (US stats), so based on 73,000,000 children, that works out to 1,460 possible deaths. This excludes any other health issues (like myocarditis and pericarditis) which mostly affect the young (which is why Moderna was shelved for 18 and under). Likely very similar rate for unvaccinated.

So who is the government trying to save by vaccinating children? It's not the kids. They are, and so far have been, extremely low risk. They're only doing this to save old people like yourself.

We, though, as society have no idea of long term consequences of the vaccines, especially mRNA, since they are still a relatively new type (again, why they are not yet approved for younglings yet).

Is it worth the risk of vaccinating them?

Put it a different way: if Covid-19 was as serious of health threat to those over 20 as it is to those under 20; guess what Dan, we're not having this conversation because it wouldn't even make it into a medical journal. The risk simply isn't there.

I bolded this because it's important: If the old were affected the same as the young, we might have had 50 or 60 deaths in Canada the past 18 months, and maybe 1,500 in the USA. This isn't making the news anywhere.

I am glad I am not making that call. I am also glad I don't have young children anymore. Because I would hate for something to happen to them, vaccine related, when their risk of serious illness is very low and death rate is about 0.000057 (16 out of 279,000 -- how many were sick (asymptomatic) and untested is likely significantly higher by maybe 2 or 3 times).

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-...cases.html

Lockdowns, btw, we're in Ontario, not Alberta. Not happening again. No need when you have vaccine passports for the vaccinated. Unless you're suggesting that vaccines don't work well enough. Unless you're suggesting masks are useless.

I mean, I agree that vaccines aren't 100% effective, but at this point, with vaccine passports for most places of businesses (the ones that are usually locked down), there shouldn't be a need to lock down further unless government doesn't believe in the science they've been telling us either.

While most of you folks know that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but y'all also aware that I also believe we need a better vaccine. That said, if science is telling us that vaccines are effective enough at preventing serious illness, I would like a solid explanation from someone (especially Dan), why a further lock-down might be needed if vaccinated people are hanging out with vaccinated people (which is what the passport is supposed to allow to do).

Do some research.

[danbrotherston]

Plenty of adults are not vaccinated, Alberta is cancelling non-emergency surgeries.

No...there'll be more lockdowns. There didn't have to be, but there will be.

By the way, choosing to infect our children with a dangerous disease with unknown long term consequences, where some will still die, is not something I'm okay with, but I'm disturbed to learn that a lot of people are surprisingly okay with killing some children.

What is frustrating me to no end is that if we did as you suggest, broadly applied vaccine mandates, and ubiquitous masking, (as well as good precautions in schools), we'd avoid this easily. But we aren't doing that.

Good grief Dan, that is ignorant as hell. There are plenty more things more dangerous to children than covid-19, and I don't see anyone here saying anything about it. But clearly YOU'RE willing to risk a child's health with a vaccine that might be more risky than the disease itself. Only reason why they even vaccinated youngsters is to protect old people like you, not the other way round.

For reference: 16 children (and young adults), ages 0-19 have died of covid-19 in Canada. This is versus 26,739 for all other age groups (combined) -- in Canada.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228...da-by-age/

In the USA, they have had 486 deaths (0-18) out of 643,857 (total).

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-CO.../nr4s-juj3

Estimated death rate for vaccination is 0.00002 (US stats), so based on 73,000,000 children, that works out to 1,460 possible deaths. This excludes any other health issues (like myocarditis and pericarditis) which mostly affect the young (which is why Moderna was shelved for 18 and under). Likely very similar rate for unvaccinated.

So who is the government trying to save by vaccinating children? It's not the kids. They are, and so far have been, extremely low risk. They're only doing this to save old people like yourself.

We, though, as society have no idea of long term consequences of the vaccines, especially mRNA, since they are still a relatively new type (again, why they are not yet approved for younglings yet).

Is it worth the risk of vaccinating them?

Put it a different way: if Covid-19 was as serious of health threat to those over 20 as it is to those under 20; guess what Dan, we're not having this conversation because it wouldn't even make it into a medical journal. The risk simply isn't there.

I bolded this because it's important: If the old were affected the same as the young, we might have had 50 or 60 deaths in Canada the past 18 months, and maybe 1,500 in the USA. This isn't making the news anywhere.

I am glad I am not making that call. I am also glad I don't have young children anymore. Because I would hate for something to happen to them, vaccine related, when their risk of serious illness is very low and death rate is about 0.000057 (16 out of 279,000 -- how many were sick (asymptomatic)  and untested is likely significantly higher by maybe 2 or 3 times).

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-...cases.html

Lockdowns, btw, we're in Ontario, not Alberta. Not happening again. No need when you have vaccine passports for the vaccinated. Unless you're suggesting that vaccines don't work well enough. Unless you're suggesting masks are useless.

I mean, I agree that vaccines aren't 100% effective, but at this point, with vaccine passports for most places of businesses (the ones that are usually locked down), there shouldn't be a need to lock down further unless government doesn't believe in the science they've been telling us either.

While most of you folks know that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but y'all also aware that I also believe we need a better vaccine. That said, if science is telling us that vaccines are effective enough at preventing serious illness, I would like a solid explanation from someone (especially Dan), why a further lock-down might be needed if vaccinated people are hanging out with vaccinated people (which is what the passport is supposed to allow to do).

Do some research.

*sigh*...Frankly, I'll be honest, I'm not going to bother reading most of that. But no, kids do die from COVID...they also die from the flu, I find none of those acceptable. They also die from lots of other things, like dangerous roads, polluted air, sedentary lifestyles demanded by our car dependent cities.

And again, I'M NOT OKAY WITH THAT. I'm disturbed by how okay other people are. Sure they get upset when a child is run over, but if you suggest, well, maybe we should do something about that, it'll delay you 20 seconds on your next trip, they say, nah, lets kill kids instead.

As for how ignorant I am...because I want to vaccinate my child against dangerous diseases...I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer...that's dangerously close to an anti-vax claim.