Cycling in Waterloo Region

[SF22]

I don't know what you call these... But one of those bicycle resting posts has been installed at Water/Duke. It was pretty convenient to use while waiting, thumbs up from me.

Also I usually bike outside of rush hour so it's not an issue, but a few times now I've had close calls using the Water St bike lane with cars coming from Halls Ln and especially from the Water St South city parking lot. I think these conflicts stem from the bike lanes being bidirectional, because it's always when I'm heading towards Weber St, so I get the complaints now...

Oh this is interesting. I like how Water St has somehow become our experimental street - it has the protected corners at Charles too, right?

[Chris]

Oh this is interesting. I like how Water St has somehow become our experimental street - it has the protected corners at Charles too, right?

There is a curbed corner for bikes turning right at Joseph and Water. The Charles intersection just looks like this one.

[ac3r]

What a ridiculous waste of tax dollars. Probably cost $5000+ for some consultants to "research" the "viability" of leaning rails at intersections. $500+ each to order from a company "specialized" in leaning rails even though you could make 6 dozen of them in a garage in one day then lots of overtime for the crews that went out there to drill holes and bolts.

[ijmorlan]

What a ridiculous waste of tax dollars. Probably cost $5000+ for some consultants to "research" the "viability" of leaning rails at intersections. $500+ each to order from a company "specialized" in leaning rails even though you could make 6 dozen of them in a garage in one day then lots of overtime for the crews that went out there to drill holes and bolts.

Why do you think the installation was done on overtime?

[dtkvictim]

What a ridiculous waste of tax dollars. Probably cost $5000+ for some consultants to "research" the "viability" of leaning rails at intersections. $500+ each to order from a company "specialized" in leaning rails even though you could make 6 dozen of them in a garage in one day then lots of overtime for the crews that went out there to drill holes and bolts.

What? What are you even mad about?

Some fictitious procurement process and government grift? Bring receipts or you look like a raving conspiracy theorist.

That it's professionally made? Weren't you complaining just days ago about the modern world cheaping out on quality construction, an unwillingness to spend money on nice things, and a lack of civic and craftsman pride?

Or just upset that it exists for some reason? I guess your beloved Berlin must be wrong, along with every other city in the world with a modicum of respect for cyclists.

[Acitta]

Current data on cycling behaviour neglects equity-deserving groups
Recognizing the diversity of cycling travel behaviour will improve participation and infrastructure investments

[ijmorlan]

What a ridiculous waste of tax dollars. Probably cost $5000+ for some consultants to "research" the "viability" of leaning rails at intersections. $500+ each to order from a company "specialized" in leaning rails even though you could make 6 dozen of them in a garage in one day then lots of overtime for the crews that went out there to drill holes and bolts.

What? What are you even mad about?

Some fictitious procurement process and government grift? Bring receipts or you look like a raving conspiracy theorist.

That it's professionally made? Weren't you complaining just days ago about the modern world cheaping out on quality construction, an unwillingness to spend money on nice things, and a lack of civic and craftsman pride?

Or just upset that it exists for some reason? I guess your beloved Berlin must be wrong, along with every other city in the world with a modicum of respect for cyclists.

Poster ac3r is a strange combination of valuable and interesting contributor and troll. They sometimes provide an interesting and expert perspective, but other times say weird nonsense and then refuse to answer even the most basic questions about what they’ve said. If they’re actually right about some of what I’m calling weird nonsense we’ll never know.

Also, to say at least something truly on topic, if those stands cost $5000 to study plus $500 all-in they don’t really cost that much compared to everything else that is part of the street. You don’t just pick up street components at Home Depot.

[danbrotherston]

What? What are you even mad about?

Some fictitious procurement process and government grift? Bring receipts or you look like a raving conspiracy theorist.

That it's professionally made? Weren't you complaining just days ago about the modern world cheaping out on quality construction, an unwillingness to spend money on nice things, and a lack of civic and craftsman pride?

Or just upset that it exists for some reason? I guess your beloved Berlin must be wrong, along with every other city in the world with a modicum of respect for cyclists.

Poster ac3r is a strange combination of valuable and interesting contributor and troll. They sometimes provide an interesting and expert perspective, but other times say weird nonsense and then refuse to answer even the most basic questions about what they’ve said. If they’re actually right about some of what I’m calling weird nonsense we’ll never know.

Also, to say at least something truly on topic, if those stands cost $5000 to study plus $500 all-in they don’t really cost that much compared to everything else that is part of the street. You don’t just pick up street components at Home Depot.

Indeed, and indeed. I ordered bike racks for our condo building and they weren't cheap even for the most basic of rack. The power of mass production and the free market..it does some things very well.

[ac3r]

I'm not trolling. I genuinely think we spend way too much money on cycling nonsense these days. Bike lanes are fine but spending money to get some steel tubes bent, welded, painted and installed is a waste when we have so many other things that need funding across this region.

Not that many people bike in Germany, by the way. Less than 10% use a bike daily, less than 20% use a bike more than twice a week. It's an extremely car centric country, quite like Netherlands is.

[the_conestoga_guy]

Low-key, the investment that I have been the most excited about lately was the changes made along from Margaret from Victoria to Wellington. It seems like the main focus from the city has been to build out the downtown grid. But those changes seem to be much more involved, because it includes cuts into the road surface and widening curbs to fit MUTs. 

The changes along Margaret basically just involved some paint and affixing concrete blocks. The implementation was so much quicker, yet the end result is 90% as good as the downtown facilities. 

I really hope it’s a sign of things to come, with more cheap and rapid changes building out from the core.

[danbrotherston]

Low-key, the investment that I have been the most excited about lately was the changes made along from Margaret from Victoria to Wellington. It seems like the main focus from the city has been to build out the downtown grid. But those changes seem to be much more involved, because it includes cuts into the road surface and widening curbs to fit MUTs. 

The changes along Margaret basically just involved some paint and affixing concrete blocks. The implementation was so much quicker, yet the end result is 90% as good as the downtown facilities. 

I really hope it’s a sign of things to come, with more cheap and rapid changes building out from the core.

The Margaret work is part of the downtown grid actually, but MerelyKate and others convinced city staff it was worth doing the extra 150 meters across to Breithaupt in order to make the connection to the spur line. Plus I think there was some funding freed up from the cancelled sections.

I think the downtown grid could be done cheaper with more temporary materials, but that also has downsides (cars frequently hit barriers in Toronto and push them into the bike lane).

Margaret was easy to do because there was already significant right of way, but it still feels like a retrofit, continuing straight on Margaret isn't ideal at this point (at least from what I can see in the pictures).

That being said, I don't think the time consuming part is construction. Downtown grid took years of advocacy and planning and public consultation and work. And the delays in construction were largely to do with resistance to the work being done (look at Duke and Ontario cancelled).

If I've learned one thing, it's that there's plenty of money, the ONLY thing we're short of is political will. Which is why I don't think it's so important how or what we do (as long as prices are within reason, I'm looking directly at you Phase 2 ION) what is important is the political will.

Hell, the DTG was absolutely tenuous as it was...the proprietor of Legacy Greens managed to kill the Ontario section. The region is trying to kill the Duke section. VPNA NIMBYs succeeded in killing the Water St. diversion. Think about how much has been compromised from the original very modest plan. We were lucky the thing passed at all. There was strong resistance from Market interests to the Cedar St. section, and the VPNA NIMBYs really wanted to kill the whole Joseph St. section.

I.e., don't ever publicly critique something like the DTG even if you think "oh...x would be slightly better"...because all you do is make it more likely that we don't get anything. Of course, privately, feel free to give feedback to staff building it, or council, (and generally I think this is also a private/safe place to discuss it).

[nms]

Current data on cycling behaviour neglects equity-deserving groups
Recognizing the diversity of cycling travel behaviour will improve participation and infrastructure investments

But a study by researchers from the University of Waterloo found that the census ignores recreational cycling and the trips of older adults, women, service workers, and people who are unstably housed or live with a disability. As a result, the value of cycling in our society is grossly underestimated. In addition, areas and groups lacking resources remain dismissed as a mere data collection gap and have limited access to cycling overall.

"Investing in infrastructure for leisure cycling, like trails, has been shown to increase participation in utility cycling, like going the grocery store," said Mayers. "We need to challenge the limited belief that investments are only worthwhile if it's for the purpose of going to work."  

Much as I love to see new cycling infrastructure around the Region, as much of it is currently designed and built, I am not comfortable with my child using them, especially if they are jammed next to a four-lane road with only a minor barrier between the traffic and the bike lane.  When infrastructure planners begin to account for non-commuters, our bike lane network will be that much better.

[cherrypark]

Current data on cycling behaviour neglects equity-deserving groups
Recognizing the diversity of cycling travel behaviour will improve participation and infrastructure investments

But a study by researchers from the University of Waterloo found that the census ignores recreational cycling and the trips of older adults, women, service workers, and people who are unstably housed or live with a disability. As a result, the value of cycling in our society is grossly underestimated. In addition, areas and groups lacking resources remain dismissed as a mere data collection gap and have limited access to cycling overall.

"Investing in infrastructure for leisure cycling, like trails, has been shown to increase participation in utility cycling, like going the grocery store," said Mayers. "We need to challenge the limited belief that investments are only worthwhile if it's for the purpose of going to work."  

Much as I love to see new cycling infrastructure around the Region, as much of it is currently designed and built, I am not comfortable with my child using them, especially if they are jammed next to a four-lane road with only a minor barrier between the traffic and the bike lane.  When infrastructure planners begin to account for non-commuters, our bike lane network will be that much better.

Ah but won't anyone think of the highway off ramps? Sounding a little anti-prosperity and employment there (at least, according to your mayor).

Full agreement with your point. The metric of "would you think this is safe for your children" is both a good one to separate the othering of adult cyclists in these discussions (i.e. - Joseph St was safe enough already!) and make the compromises that lead to things like Northfield impossible to justify without admitting its a half-measure. Also works for me personally given that I'm literally using them to and from daycare on a daily basis...

[Chris]

I'm not trolling. I genuinely think we spend way too much money on cycling nonsense these days. Bike lanes are fine but spending money to get some steel tubes bent, welded, painted and installed is a waste when we have so many other things that need funding across this region.

Not that many people bike in Germany, by the way. Less than 10% use a bike daily, less than 20% use a bike more than twice a week. It's an extremely car centric country, quite like Netherlands is.

As someone who has spent time in Germany this claim did not match my experience.

https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2020/...f-cycling/

If you don't want to read the source here are two things to take away.

The Berliners have gone one step further – it is estimated that there are 710 bicycles per 1,000 inhabitants. With 620 km of dedicated cycle paths, Berlin also belongs among cities with the highest rate of bike commuting in the world.

More than 80 per cent of Germans use bicycles, especially when travelling 15 km or fewer.

[SF22]

That being said, I don't think the time consuming part is construction. Downtown grid took years of advocacy and planning and public consultation and work. And the delays in construction were largely to do with resistance to the work being done

My hope is that we've built enough infrastructure now that the city has largely established a preferred design, and that the back-and-forth for public consultation largely disappears for projects that are straight-forward. For example, there are new separated bike lanes planned for East Ave between Frederick and Krug next year to replace the current painted lanes, and the full designs are posted on EngageKitchener, but there was no explicit community input sessions for this reconstruction. They have made it possible for people to reach out about the project, but they really aren't asking for input - the design has been chosen and the work is getting done. It's just outside the bounds of the downtown grid (the neighbourhood bikeway on Chapel is part of the grid, which will connect with the East Ave lanes), so wouldn't have been involved in that planning process.