Restricting Right Turns on Red

[dtkvictim]

I don't want to derail the whole thread - but in "Europe", the lights are much more likely to be physically positioned at the stop line. Drivers need to be looking very near their car to get instructions and are therefore more aware of pedestrians and cyclists physically nearby. Also, if the light is positioned at the stop line, you can't creep past the line and cover the crosswalk because the light will be behind you and you won't know when to go again. Our current light placement encourages people to creep forward and not pay attention to anything in the nearest crosswalk - because they're looking elsewhere (and not even looking at pedestrian-level).

Yeah this might derail the thread, but it's all related to intersection safety I guess.

Yes, that all addressed what I was already in agreement on (forcing you to stay behind the stop bar).

What I'm not convinced about is that looking at near-side signals force people into a better position to be aware of their surroundings, which you haven't really addressed. Take a look at the second photo you provided for example:

The signal for straight traffic is still high up, but since it's much closer the driver is looking even further away (up at a higher angle) from where pedestrians are than if it was on the far side. I haven't driven anywhere with lights like that, but I imagine you need to physically tilt your head up to see that light, and tilt it back down to check the intersection is clear before proceeding on a green. With a far side light you are just flicking your eyes up and down.

The signal for the right turn, including the lower curb side one, is even worse. A driver watching it is looking to their right the entire time when the most immediate traffic is coming from the left. A late pedestrian, cyclist, or vehicle (none of whom should usually be there, but it happens) would be basically out of the field of view. A far side signal would at least have them in your periphery.

What this photo does capture is the separation of signals for crossing pedestrians and right turning vehicles which is much more important than signal placement anyways.