12-21-2016, 10:24 PM
Dan, I'm going to try really hard to make this my last post to you on this subject and give you the last word after this. So this might get rant-y. But letting threads die on the internet isn't one of my strong points. So... no promises.
"First of all, healthcare is free because if you make no income and don't pay any money to healthcare, you still can go to the hospital for free."
This doesn't make healthcare free. It means that 'rich' people subsidize 'poor' people because we live in a relatively 'enlightened' society. But its not free. The users still pay for it through taxes (If we want to be less simplistic, there's some amount of subsidy across provinces and time as well... but I don't think we need to get into that). If you think Healthcare is free, who do you think is paying for the hospitals, doctors, ambulances, etc.?
"Netflix isn't free, because if you make no income and don't pay Netflix, they won't let you watch movies."
OF COURSE NETFLIX ISN'T FREE!!! ijmorlan said: "Think back to your last non-407 automobile trip. What fee or charge did you pay to use the roads on that trip? ... ... ... I thought so." and "Ok, this afternoon I drove to an appointment. Did I have to pay to use the roads? No. My finances are exactly the same now as they would have been if I had walked to the appointment." He seems to think that if you don't pay per unit used of something, right when you used it, that you didn't pay at all. Netflix doesn't charge users per movie used. They charge a fee up front. And after that if you watch 0 movies or 500 movies - you pay nothing else. ijmorlan, doesn't seem to understand that you can pay for complete unlimited access to something and thats still paying for it.
"Calling someone a zealot is not conducive to a useful conversation. You're just going to put them on the defensive and make them more unlikely to listen to your arguments."
Quite frankly, I don't really care about your opinion on this. I've had a number of people ITT assume the worst about me despite the evidence or incorrectly 'correct me' and when I reiterate or correct the person I get no response. Where's your comment about the usefulness of ijmorlan repeating his same dumb claim but then adding "... ... ... ... ... ... I thought not?".
Threads like this always develop a mob like mentality where people refuse to correct or challenge the people that are "on their side". And let's not pretend this was a useful conversation! Neither you or ijmorlan added a single piece of substance. You just keep making your same assertions w/o any shred of actual data.
And one big reason people like you and ijmorlan drive me crazy is because it feels like you're actively hurting the public transit side. There are a LOT of good reasons to build transit. And a LOT of low hanging fruit where its such a no brainer.
As a side note, I still work closely with a group of people in NYC. They get a good kick out of discussions like this(*) because its so obvious to them both mass transit and "mass motoring" (as you call it) are important. Some of these people don't even own cars!
And finally, I have no idea how to quote properly on this forum. It also drives me crazy. Lots of things drive me crazy.
(*) To be fair, I have local friends that get a kick out of a lot of things that the NYC people do. It's all relative.
"First of all, healthcare is free because if you make no income and don't pay any money to healthcare, you still can go to the hospital for free."
This doesn't make healthcare free. It means that 'rich' people subsidize 'poor' people because we live in a relatively 'enlightened' society. But its not free. The users still pay for it through taxes (If we want to be less simplistic, there's some amount of subsidy across provinces and time as well... but I don't think we need to get into that). If you think Healthcare is free, who do you think is paying for the hospitals, doctors, ambulances, etc.?
"Netflix isn't free, because if you make no income and don't pay Netflix, they won't let you watch movies."
OF COURSE NETFLIX ISN'T FREE!!! ijmorlan said: "Think back to your last non-407 automobile trip. What fee or charge did you pay to use the roads on that trip? ... ... ... I thought so." and "Ok, this afternoon I drove to an appointment. Did I have to pay to use the roads? No. My finances are exactly the same now as they would have been if I had walked to the appointment." He seems to think that if you don't pay per unit used of something, right when you used it, that you didn't pay at all. Netflix doesn't charge users per movie used. They charge a fee up front. And after that if you watch 0 movies or 500 movies - you pay nothing else. ijmorlan, doesn't seem to understand that you can pay for complete unlimited access to something and thats still paying for it.
"Calling someone a zealot is not conducive to a useful conversation. You're just going to put them on the defensive and make them more unlikely to listen to your arguments."
Quite frankly, I don't really care about your opinion on this. I've had a number of people ITT assume the worst about me despite the evidence or incorrectly 'correct me' and when I reiterate or correct the person I get no response. Where's your comment about the usefulness of ijmorlan repeating his same dumb claim but then adding "... ... ... ... ... ... I thought not?".
Threads like this always develop a mob like mentality where people refuse to correct or challenge the people that are "on their side". And let's not pretend this was a useful conversation! Neither you or ijmorlan added a single piece of substance. You just keep making your same assertions w/o any shred of actual data.
And one big reason people like you and ijmorlan drive me crazy is because it feels like you're actively hurting the public transit side. There are a LOT of good reasons to build transit. And a LOT of low hanging fruit where its such a no brainer.
As a side note, I still work closely with a group of people in NYC. They get a good kick out of discussions like this(*) because its so obvious to them both mass transit and "mass motoring" (as you call it) are important. Some of these people don't even own cars!
And finally, I have no idea how to quote properly on this forum. It also drives me crazy. Lots of things drive me crazy.
(*) To be fair, I have local friends that get a kick out of a lot of things that the NYC people do. It's all relative.