Funding roads (taxes, user fees etc)

[jeffster]

My one issue, though, is that people will find a way.

Take for example water: We were told to conserve. We were given rebates on toilets, etc.  End result? People did exactly as asked, not enough money was coming in to take care of infrastructure, and now we have this infrastructure deficits for our pipes. Now our rates are triple of what they were.

Take electricity: We were told to conserve, given money to update appliances, ToU, etc. End result, we're paying jurisdictions money to take our electricity and have some of the highest rates in North America. Now are rates are triple of what they were.

The problem, both with these examples, and applying to driving too, is that they're an over simplification, that misses a very key detail.  Costs do not scale linearly.

Take water, we were told to conserve, so that we don't have to build a pipeline to the lake.  Yes, because conservation efforts have worked very well, water utility revenue has decreased and thus rates have risen, because the rate breakdown did not accurately reflect fixed costs vs. variable costs.  BUT we still saved money.  Whether or not rates have risen, costs have risen far less, because we didn't have to build a pipeline to the lake.  This would have costs a billion or so...that would have been enormously expensive, and because we conserve we didn't have to do it.  

Same with garbage, although we don't pay fees directly, the region is going to save tons of money, by not having to open a new garbage dump, because we reduced our production of garbage, even though yes, our per ton costs could rise, because we're throwing out less.

And also the same with roads.  Yes, we will always need roads.  But we don't always need, four, six, eight lane highways.  And building wider roads is more than just twice, or four times as expensive, wider roads to carry the enormous number of single occupant vehicles we have are orders of magnitude more expensive than just building a road network.  So if we get fewer people to drive (and again, nobody is talking about banning, please stop accusing us of that), yes, we must still pay to keep a road network operational, but that doesn't mean that we won't still save money, because the costs will also be lower.

I didn't accuse anyone of "banning cars", I have no idea where you saw that, as I never said that to anyone. I had pointed out that even if you 'banned' ICE and EV's, you still need the same roads.

My point is, if you want a pay-as-you-go (or tolls) type of system, it's going to have to paid by everyone that uses and benefits it. The only real change you'd see, as you mentioned, is yes, the ever expanding highways, which won't need expansion anymore. But it still has to apply to every single vehicle on the road. And obviously with EV's, gas tax isn't the answer.

Question is, if we go that route, do we trust the government to use funds properly? If drivers are seeing $2,000 in tolls every year (say 10¢ per km for 20,000KM, give or take based on vehicle weight, type, etc) do we trust that our taxes (property, income tax) will go down by approximately the same amount?

Take water for example, the promise was, conserve, no pipeline, save on your monthly bill. Reality was, conserve, no pipeline, your water bill will still be double than what it was even though you're using half. I mean, anyone with half a brain would have realized that conservation would result in increased rates. However, that wasn't the message of the government.

Garbage: There are fee's. Ask any large family, especially ones with young children in diapers, if their 5th garbage of bag (every two weeks) is free...it is not. I think tags are $2 each. That's a fee.

The same will apply to roads, especially city roads. Maintenance on roads won't change one bit as light vehicles don't damage. Only savings might be roads that were planned for widening that no longer need it. However, with less drivers, and drivers being smart (like people have been with water and electricity), the milage won't be there to collect sufficient tolls. The people it affects the most are those that are caregivers, taking dependants to doctors appointments, etc. Not to mention those that actually commute to work, that would have to stop.

In the end, everyone ends up poorer, and infrastructure deteriorates even further.