The COVID-19 pandemic

[danbrotherston]

That's a false comparison, there is no public health emergency triage situation being caused by people who do extreme sports or are obese. "statistically bogging downt he health care system" isn't a real thing, on the other hand, our healthcare system is actually cancelling surgeries right now as a result of unvaccinated covid patients.

I don't think it's a false comparison. Rather, quite opposite. People who take care of their health -- exercise, eat healthy, don't smoke, drink moderately, are highly unlikely to end up in the hospital (let alone ICU) due to covid. At the same time, people who don't exercise, eat junk food all day, smoke regularly, drink heavy, quite often end up in the hospital, regardless of Covid, and vaccination status.

Right now, we have 319 people in the ICU due to Covid, 87 are fully vaccinated. Should we take into account their lifestyle if we penalize their other 232?

As it stands, about 75% of people in the ICU are not there because of Covid. Many times they are there due to lifestyle choices.

Bottom line, one can argue that those who smoke, those who are obese, those who take extreme risks, are the real reason why our hospitals are at the breaking point. Our system was never built to handle a pandemic. It was built to take care of those (as mentioned) and not much more.

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should get vaccinated if they can. But everyone should have the right to decide if they want to get a medical procedure done, especially one with limited testing and limited success. My kid ended up in the hospital and almost died due to his vaccine (Moderna) -- luckily, at least for those under 30, Moderna won't be offered. But these vaccines aren't without risk. And for someone like my 19 year old, fit and healthy, doesn't do drug, alcohol or smoke, being unvaccinated would probably not have put him in the hospital. But that's not the narrative of our PHAC and PHU's -- as rarely do they encourage people to take care of their health.

To add: those who are fully vaccinated and hanging out with family and friends and spreading the disease and clogging our hospitals are also just a guilty as the unvaccinated. While a lot of the blame goes to our stupid politicians and healthcare experts with spreading falsehoods with the efficacy of the vaccine, we have known for some time that being vaccinated doesn't give you immunity, nor does it prevent you from becoming a carrier and spreading the virus to others -- so do we likewise treat those people the same as unvaccinated?

And I say that, because my family has sacrificed having friends over, from seeing family, etc. Yet I know some that are out and about every moment they have. They are just as much as a problem, 100%.

Why do you feel it is a fair comparison.

When have we cancelled surgeries because of people who smoke?  We are cancelling surgeries because of covid. That is the ONLY reason.

You are welcome to disagree, and argue that we should triage exclusively on survivability if you want, or even that triage should always consider behaviour. That's an opinion. But to argue that it's the same thing as other lifestyle choices I feel is denying the situation.

I know our healthcare system is intentionally incapable of handling a pandemic like this (and that systemically we have chosen not to manage the situation to stabilize healthcare), but that doesn't change the fact that we are in a triage situation and are cancelling surgeries as a result of the pandemic.

It isn't the same situation as smoking or any other lifestyle choices.

The only examples where it is the same case, they DO in fact triage based on lifestyle choices. If I am a drinker, I won't be getting a liver transplant. If I'm a smoker, I won't be getting a lung transplant. In these cases, the availability of treatment is extremely limited, and lifestyle choices contribute to a massive number of people needing treatment for that particular malady, so in those select examples, treatment *IS* triaged based on behaviour.

As an aside, I'd also argue that anti-vaxxers are the only ones who are clearly making a personal choice which harms people. Others who are vaccinated might get sick because they're being reckless, but they might also get sick because their employer is being reckless, or because some anti-vaxxer is being reckless, there is no way to know which. But no Canadian has not had the opportunity to get vaccinated, failing to do so is a choice. (If you also want to triage the assholes who publicly documented themselves being reckless on the Mexico flight, be my guest).