01-15-2022, 11:55 AM
The main thing about mandatory/coerced vaccines is that it's also an emergency situation, and rights are conditional on there not being an emergency. We had conscription in this country historically, after all. Your rights didn't go so far when there were Nazis to fight. Now the issue is that there is no hospital capacity.
As jeffster pointed out, it has limits, and has often never been truly free, so that we haven't had to deal with the full fallout of full free speech. Like, in the 50s, sure, you could say anything (if you were a white male), but you would get zero traction unless the big networks or newspapers picked it up. Social media changes that calculation, which is not all bad, but which is a problem due to misinformation. There's that line about a lie being halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.
Also note that the "with COVID" people sometimes have conditions aggravated by COVID and wouldn't actually be there if COVID wasn't there. Also, once you have COVID, it makes hospital treatment much harder, because now you have a thing that needs to not spread to other patients. So, true to some extent, but still putting huge pressure on the hospital system.
Not just that. Someone pointed to other examples. Auckland had some measles outbreaks before COVID as well.
(01-14-2022, 01:40 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(01-14-2022, 01:12 PM)jeffster Wrote: As for weak-minded anti-vaxxers who get their information from FaceBook and radio talk shows -- that blame goes directly to the government and (social)media for allowing that shit in the first place.
Freedom of speech is one of our fundamental freedoms. As Evelyn Hall said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
As jeffster pointed out, it has limits, and has often never been truly free, so that we haven't had to deal with the full fallout of full free speech. Like, in the 50s, sure, you could say anything (if you were a white male), but you would get zero traction unless the big networks or newspapers picked it up. Social media changes that calculation, which is not all bad, but which is a problem due to misinformation. There's that line about a lie being halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.
(01-14-2022, 06:20 PM)Lebronj23 Wrote: https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews....ry-11/amp/
I thought this was interesting. I wonder why they just decided to change their reporting? Seems like all the data given before was inflating numbers.
‘46% of current hospital admissions marked with covid, were admitted for other reasons, but just happened to test positive while in there’
Antivax - “I told you so!’
Also note that the "with COVID" people sometimes have conditions aggravated by COVID and wouldn't actually be there if COVID wasn't there. Also, once you have COVID, it makes hospital treatment much harder, because now you have a thing that needs to not spread to other patients. So, true to some extent, but still putting huge pressure on the hospital system.
(01-14-2022, 07:38 PM)JoeKW Wrote: Herd immunity for measles requires 95% of the population to be immune so it doesn't take too many people to get outbreaks going again. Some more 'granola' areas in the US have fallen below the threshold and started seeing measles outbreaks again in recent years. This was, of course, back before Covid19 and when antivaxers were mostly hippies.
Not just that. Someone pointed to other examples. Auckland had some measles outbreaks before COVID as well.