What does DTK need?

[dtkvictim]

I sort of agree with your point, but a downtown that serves the entire city will always need to exist as a center for government, business, and city wide functions (events, demonstrations, etc). The issue is a lack of an alternative, offering what downtown offers while semi-exclusively serving you and your neighbour's needs and not those of the entire city.

Downtown is diverse and there are lots of people who live and work there. Some probably want more people downtown and some don't. I will say I have met some people who don't want more people downtown (living or travelling) and these people...well I won't make any commentary on their beliefs or values or personality, all I'll say is that I think they'd be much happier if they didn't live downtown.

Yes, I think I know the type of people you are talking about. I don't think I am one of them, though see below regarding being happier outside of downtown. My point was a little different though: I think it's an issue that people looking for denser housing, walkability, local shops, safe cycling options, and "good enough" transit only have downtown as an option. Downtown will always be downtown, which for many people is an inherent contradiction to being a neighourhood or community, and so people who feel like that feel like there is nowhere good for them to live.

I think I've come to two main conclusions here. (Like with available parking) the perception of crime is the only thing that matters, and that the amount of crime has little relevance to the perception. People won't come downtown when the media, their friends, their family, neighbours, (and the past 70 years of American import culture) has told them downtown is dangerous.

Whether downtown is actually dangerous, I think it has a higher concentration of crime, but I don't think it's actually unsafe. And I do think that Jane Jacob's arguments were...overly simplistic. People (generally) do like being around other people, and a busy street will feel safer than an empty alley. However, people also don't like different people. Downtown has far more diversity of people (both in race, and in people having life challenges like drugs or mental health problems). One of the points of suburbs was to isolate people from diversity. When you only drive places, you'll only encounter people who live near you, your friends, and your coworkers--which is a group of people unlikely to be diverse in life situation if not more broadly. Suddenly being face with a lot more diversity, will be scary to some people, no matter what Jane Jacobs thought.

And, FWIW, I think there is also a big safety perception that people face when going downtown that is accurate (although never talked about and only experienced by people who GO downtown rather than those who don't) and that is of danger from traffic. Most people probably don't do anything but drive places 99% of the time. That too is dangerous, but most people are completely desensitized to it. When you start walking on our streets and you have drivers threatening your safety constantly, and you experience our car focused infra as a pedestrian, all of a sudden you feel very uncomfortable and unsafe. Some people probably rightly recognize this, but some people might falsely attribute it to downtown.

I think this is the single most important discussion to have, if we want Canadian cities of the future to reflect the ideals shared in this community, more than discussing any of the ideals themselves. I've stated my frustrations and experiences before, but I don't think I've stated this as bluntly as I need to: I have long passed my breaking point living downtown, and it is providing a lower quality of life than any rural or suburban location I've lived in. Most critically I have lost my peace of mind, which is something I never expected living in Canada. I am ready to compromise on every urbanist value I hold to get it back, even if that means buying cars and moving to an unwalkable single family home. While cars are frustrating and degrade the public realm, and statistically are far more dangerous, it's ultimately the people (drug addicts, mentally ill, and regular "bad" people) who have broken me, and are the reason I will leave.

You are right that perception of safety is more important than actual safety, but I disagree that the current perception is borne entirely out of ignorance. I held completely positive or neutral views of downtown's safety despite my non-urban upbringing, and it wasn't until living downtown that my views changed. My childhood friends from the city are slightly biased; while ethnically very diverse they are almost exclusively suburban and university educated. After I moved downtown I had a lot of discussions with them where the defended downtown, just like I would have. Now a number of them have moved to downtown Toronto, had similar experiences to me, and suddenly changed their tune. Read online posts from urban normies (i.e. non urban planning enthusiasts) in Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, etc. and you will find what I've written in much less pleasant terms and in quantities to last you for the rest of your life. The perception of a lack of safety isn't just scare tactics from ignorant suburbanite boomers (though they exist)... there are underlying truths or trends like most stereotypes. The defense of downtown shown in this community is the product of an echo-chamber... I haven't met a single downtown resident in real life (offline) that feels so positive, and most have already left (usually as soon as they find a female partner - a situation which for me has more than double the strength of my viewpoints).

I don't mean for this to be overwhelmingly negative, but I think this discussion precedes any other urban improvements. There is already so much to love about downtown, but the sum of all that I love still doesn't replace my peace of mind - and I need it back.