[Uptown] Erb/Bridgeport/Caroline/Albert Reconstruction

[chutten]

Ditto Banhoffstrasse in Zurich. Very friendly to people just walking out of the hauptbanhoff and seeing people, not cars, with the occasional LRV all the way to the lake.

[Chris]

I still think the LRT should have gone down King St. through downtown Kitchener, and have it turned into a transit/bike/pedestrian mall.

Agree 100%. King could have been like the 16th Street Mall in Denver.

[kps]

I still think the LRT should have gone down King St. through downtown Kitchener, and have it turned into a transit/bike/pedestrian mall.

Agree 100%. King could have been like the 16th Street Mall in Denver.

We're still getting the acrylic canopy over King St though, right?

[plam]

Ditto Banhoffstrasse in Zurich. Very friendly to people just walking out of the hauptbanhoff and seeing people, not cars, with the occasional LRV all the way to the lake.

Yes. Although the trams in Zurich are not really much faster than jogging pace (I've tested this!)

[BuildingScout]

Yes. Although the trams in Zurich are not really much faster than jogging pace (I've tested this!)

I think this is only true in Downtown. My recollection is that they sped up quite a bit in the suburbs.

[dunkalunk]

I think it’s hard to fathom that the Region thinks a one-way pair is necessary leading from the expressway towards Uptown Waterloo. Bridgeport Road East near Weber carries 16,500 cars a day according to the Region’s traffic counts. Erb Street just west of Weber carries just shy of 17,000; just east of Weber, less than 11,000.

These are absurdly low volumes to afford three lanes one-way. One lane each way with a centre turning lane would accommodate these volumes with free-flowing traffic nearly all of the time.

Why not two lanes?

[BuildingScout]

I think it’s hard to fathom that the Region thinks a one-way pair is necessary leading from the expressway towards Uptown Waterloo. Bridgeport Road East near Weber carries 16,500 cars a day according to the Region’s traffic counts. Erb Street just west of Weber carries just shy of 17,000; just east of Weber, less than 11,000.

These are absurdly low volumes to afford three lanes one-way. One lane each way with a centre turning lane would accommodate these volumes with free-flowing traffic nearly all of the time.

Why not two lanes?

One lane is absurd. Anyone who has witnessed the backups on Erb St W. eastbound whenever it is constrained to one lane would know what a cockamamie of an idea this is.


p.s. Two lanes would likely be enough (for the time being) , though I don't know any possible use to that extra lane.

[plam]

Yes. Although the trams in Zurich are not really much faster than jogging pace (I've tested this!)

I think this is only true in Downtown. My recollection is that they sped up quite a bit in the suburbs.

25 minutes from my place near downtown Zurich to the airport, a distance of 9km, so it's a bit faster than jogging speed, but still pretty slow. The stop spacing of the trams is less than 400m, even in the suburbs.

[ijmorlan]

Why not two lanes?

One lane is absurd. Anyone who has witnessed the backups on Erb St W. eastbound whenever it is constrained to one lane would know what a cockamamie of an idea this is.


p.s. Two lanes would likely be enough (for the time being) , though I don't know any possible use to that extra lane.

I think the idea is that Erb and Bridgeport would each be one lane each way. So in fact two lanes in each direction. On top of which, I would expect that ample turn lanes would be provided wherever turning is permitted. So that would be one free-flowing lane on each street in each direction devoted entirely to through traffic. I think it’s far from clear that this would work poorly.

Personally I’m OK with the one-way roads, but they should have two lanes plus turn lanes, not sort-of-3-lanes-but-at-many-locations-the-third-lane-is-really-but-only-sort-of-a-turn-lane which is what we actually get. And from Caroline to King it’s definitely absurd for a one-way Erb St. to have three lanes — no traffic study required, just logical thinking.

[BuildingScout]

I think the idea is that Erb and Bridgeport would each be one lane each way. So in fact two lanes in each direction. On top of which, I would expect that ample turn lanes would be provided wherever turning is permitted. So that would be one free-flowing lane on each street in each direction devoted entirely to through traffic. I think it’s far from clear that this would work poorly.

So, you are claiming that people who are already driving on Erb St. W. and going mostly to Weber or the highway would turn left and head up on Bridgeport, even though only Erb St. E would have its lights synchronized eastbound???

Seriously, dude, spend five minutes thinking about it and you'll see how ridiculous this two way proposal is.

[MidTowner]

So, you are claiming that people who are already driving on Erb St. W. and going mostly to Weber or the highway would turn left and head up on Bridgeport, even though only Erb St. E would have its lights synchronized eastbound???

Why would Erb have its lights synchronized eastbound as a two-way street?

And what makes you think (maybe some data? maybe?) that traffic on Erb West are "going mostly to Weber or the highway"? I wouldn't assume that. I would assume that some are going to Uptown or taking King to some other destination, some are going to destinations on or near Bridgeport/Erb, and some are taking Weber. A poster pointed out earlier that, sufficiently far west on Erb, and it makes much more sense to head south on Fischer-Hallman to the Expressway, rather than cutting through the heart of Waterloo (which we don't probably want cars to be doing).

[mpd618]

Seriously, dude, spend five minutes thinking about it and you'll see how ridiculous this two way proposal is.

You would have an easier time getting your point across without the condescension and ridicule, and with perhaps some recognition that different people view streets/roads as serving different purposes.

[plam]

I think the idea is that Erb and Bridgeport would each be one lane each way. So in fact two lanes in each direction. On top of which, I would expect that ample turn lanes would be provided wherever turning is permitted. So that would be one free-flowing lane on each street in each direction devoted entirely to through traffic. I think it’s far from clear that this would work poorly.

So, you are claiming that people who are already driving on Erb St. W. and going mostly to Weber or the highway would turn left and head up on Bridgeport, even though only Erb St. E would have its lights synchronized eastbound???

Seriously, dude, spend five minutes thinking about it and you'll see how ridiculous this two way proposal is.

I really don't think it would be the end of the world if Erb and Bridgeport were two-way. It would probably add less than a minute to a typical drive out of town, balanced by the benefits of not having arterials going through the centre of Waterloo. You constantly mention that we should have arterials, but is this really the best place for arterials?

[ijmorlan]

So, you are claiming that people who are already driving on Erb St. W. and going mostly to Weber or the highway would turn left and head up on Bridgeport, even though only Erb St. E would have its lights synchronized eastbound???

Why would Erb have its lights synchronized eastbound as a two-way street?

And what makes you think (maybe some data? maybe?) that traffic on Erb West are "going mostly to Weber or the highway"? I wouldn't assume that. I would assume that some are going to Uptown or taking King to some other destination, some are going to destinations on or near Bridgeport/Erb, and some are taking Weber. A poster pointed out earlier that, sufficiently far west on Erb, and it makes much more sense to head south on Fischer-Hallman to the Expressway, rather than cutting through the heart of Waterloo (which we don't probably want cars to be doing).

Absolutely right. How many people drive on Erb Eastbound because they have to, but would switch to Bridgeport if they could? And in the reverse direction, how many people would prefer just to turn West on Erb St.? Who knows! We would need an origin/destination study to have any hope of figuring out the impact of making those roads two-way.

I do agree that anybody going right across the city is likely to stay on Erb once on it, but we don’t know what fraction of the traffic that is.

[tomh009]

You constantly mention that we should have arterials, but is this really the best place for arterials?

If arterials don't go to the centre of the city, where would they go?  Arteries need to connect to the heart, too ...