Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge and Brantford most vulnerable to tariffs

[tomh009]

I'm not sure how our friends to the south would react today to those rules, but we can look no further than the current government legislation to protect the digital space and see how big tech (and the government behind them, or vice versa) is reacting to being told that they must support Canadian content if they wish to operate in Canada.

Indeed. They claim the digital services tax is a trade barrier, no matter that it applies to all digital services regardless of where they are provided from. Of course, they also claim that HST and VAT are trade barriers ...

[WLU]

I shudder every time I hear collectivism - if you actually tune out the noise and observe what's happening from an economic viewpoint you will see that the US is poised for tremendous growth

- They are attracting an enormous amount of FDI (foreign direct investment) within a host of high-value and high-paying sectors
- Moreover local US firms are onshoring many of their products, in essence de-globalization is growing
- They are already a NET energy exporter (EU depends on their LNG supplies and thus have suffered tremendously due to the Russian sanctions, as Russian pipeline gas is much cheaper)
- Cutting funding of various initiatives that provide zero value to the US taxpayer, in turn exposing fraud at various levels of government

I could go on and on but it is refreshing to see a US president actually care for its own people and do what he feels is in the best interest of their country

We, on the other hand, have a prorogued parliament by a PM who could care less about the average Canadian citizen and an economy within the G20 economy poised for the lowest growth (if at all) over the next 30-50 years

What a shameful decline of a once great nation!

Well said.

[WLU]

I could go on and on but it is refreshing to see a US president actually care for its own people and do what he feels is in the best interest of their country

Best case scenario: A MAGA AI bot wrote this slop for you

Worst case scenario: You should say this out loud to a laid off Michigan auto worker in the next few days, they might have other thoughts about their best interest

Trade can be win-win. "Onshoring" comes with costs. We'll see if the American people are willing to pay those costs, because they've been pretty god damn price-sensitive in the past. I know this might seem like a hand-wave distraction, but there is more to quality of life and success than GDP growth. Canada and Europe has never led the US in that category, and yet here we are in the present day. The stock market becomes more detached from real life every day surviving and competing quite well on happiness. Focus on the dollars at your own risk and hope and pray that some day a billionaire doesn't just file you into a "fraud" category and cut your services off.

It's easy to destroy. It's really hard to build. You forget that too easily. Elon and his ilk have never known it in the first place.

I thought that mercantilism and autarky died in North Korean prison camps. No country can provide everything it needs on its own. The US will learn this lesson, yet again, and the people who aren't responsible for it will suffer the most. As usual.

Well, there's this

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-t...025-03-03/

[bravado]

I’m sure that American customers of that new Civic will love the increased price tag!

Either way, viewing the world as one big gladiator arena where you have to stab the next guy to get what you “deserve” is a great way to look at life. Hope it works out for you!

Putting such arbitrary costs on producing a thing abroad might bring that thing back home eventually, but the costs haven’t gone away. Hope we’re all ok with paying more for less.

In our current world where items are cheap (technology, food, consumer good) and services are expensive, making items expensive again is an interesting choice.

[Kodra24]

I’m sure that American customers of that new Civic will love the increased price tag!

Either way, viewing the world as one big gladiator arena where you have to stab the next guy to get what you “deserve” is a great way to look at life. Hope it works out for you!

Putting such arbitrary costs on producing a thing abroad might bring that thing back home eventually, but the costs haven’t gone away. Hope we’re all ok with paying more for less.

In our current world where items are cheap (technology, food, consumer good) and services are expensive, making items expensive again is an interesting choice.

I'm not sure you're understanding the importance of creating a strong manufacturing base within your borders

- Large capital inflow to build new and/or renovate existing facilities (creates high-paying local construction jobs)
- Manufacturing plants drive demand for local talent and supply numerous medium to highly-skilled positions
- Regional supply chain demand grows to support plant operations leading to more indirect job and business opportunities
- Ability to export product grows due to regional/national economic stability generating further revenues
- Reduced dependence on other countries for critical products (ie. semiconductor manufacturing concentrated in Taiwan) - this is a massive geopolitical risk that can be minimized or downright eliminated. This is actually happening at a large scale as Intel, TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor), Samsung, Micron and others are building massive chip fabs within the US - Hundreds upon hundreds of billions invested

Your Civic example fails to take into account that most people will be wealthier due to the increased amount of higher paying jobs available

How do you think China became the powerhouse it is today? It wasn't through retail, technology, agriculture, commodities....it starts with an M

[danbrotherston]

I’m sure that American customers of that new Civic will love the increased price tag!

Either way, viewing the world as one big gladiator arena where you have to stab the next guy to get what you “deserve” is a great way to look at life. Hope it works out for you!

Putting such arbitrary costs on producing a thing abroad might bring that thing back home eventually, but the costs haven’t gone away. Hope we’re all ok with paying more for less.

In our current world where items are cheap (technology, food, consumer good) and services are expensive, making items expensive again is an interesting choice.

I'm not sure you're understanding the importance of creating a strong manufacturing base within your borders

- Large capital inflow to build new and/or renovate existing facilities (creates high-paying local construction jobs)
- Manufacturing plants drive demand for local talent and supply numerous medium to highly-skilled positions
- Regional supply chain demand grows to support plant operations leading to more indirect job and business opportunities
- Ability to export product grows due to regional/national economic stability generating further revenues
- Reduced dependence on other countries for critical products (ie. semiconductor manufacturing concentrated in Taiwan) - this is a massive geopolitical risk that can be minimized or downright eliminated. This is actually happening at a large scale as Intel, TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor), Samsung, Micron and others are building massive chip fabs within the US - Hundreds upon hundreds of billions invested

Your Civic example fails to take into account that most people will be wealthier due to the increased amount of higher paying jobs available

How do you think China became the powerhouse it is today? It wasn't through retail, technology, agriculture, commodities....it starts with an M

Are you willing to use slave labour to do it? Because unless you are, you cannot achieve much of what you are suggesting. Products manufactured by highly paid Canadian or American workers cannot be made as cheaply as goods made by workers in countries with lower pay. Even if you support a local manufacturing industry with protectionist policies, it certainly won't be competitive in the export market. And as for the regional supply chain, there are already American suppliers of autoparts who will no longer be able to compete in Canada and Mexico now. Free trade brings prosperity. This is not even remotely controversial. There might be some non-economic reasons for protectionism, but if you think it boosts economic output, you've got about a 100 years of history to catch up on.

As for semiconductors. TSMC is building second tier chips in the US because Trump is threatening tariffs, but he's too much a fool to realize second tier chips don't matter, or rather, he only cares about the image, and rightly recognizes that most people won't really bother to understand that the most advanced manufacturing processes will stay in Taiwan. Of course Trump is also trying to cancel the CHIPS act which was the incentive for Intel to build a local fab, which will also likely kill that deal, but again, because of image...because it's a Biden thing. Only a fool thinks Trump is actually good at business and not just a narcissist.

And of course, semiconductors aren't like most manufactured goods, they're an extremely high skill industry, using a high degree of automation. This is unlike most manufacturing jobs.

And no, people do not become magically wealthier when you start making goods here. You should read an intro to economics textbook. China is a powerhouse, but the Chinese people are relatively poor compared with their American counter parts. Americans don't get wealthier by making their economy less efficient. The median American might do better if the top .01% stopped hording all the wealth. But if I point that out, you'll just upgrade your insult to "communist".

[bravado]

The Chinese example is perhaps the best one. They were remarkably poor generations ago, then massive investment brought manufacturing.

Now that their wages and standards of living are improved immensely, the manufacturing isn’t as compelling and is moving away to south east Asia and India for the next captive labour force and cheap resources.

The USA used to be the cheap resources and manufacturing source for Europe too - until they weren’t. It’s a normal cycle - we are all living in it. Trying to nail Jello to the wall and pretend like economics doesn’t apply to us is a fool’s errand.

[danbrotherston]

The Chinese example is perhaps the best one. They were remarkably poor generations ago, then massive investment brought manufacturing.

Now that their wages and standards of living are improved immensely, the manufacturing isn’t as compelling and is moving away to south east Asia and India for the next captive labour force and cheap resources.

The USA used to be the cheap resources and manufacturing source for Europe too - until they weren’t. It’s a normal cycle - we are all living in it. Trying to nail Jello to the wall and pretend like economics doesn’t apply to us is a fool’s errand.

Admittedly, this is why we are entering end stage capitalism. There are more and more developed countries, and fewer developing countries, which means there are fewer places to offshore for cheap labour. The capitalists are getting antsy about that.

But again, the solution is not protectionism, the solution is a better economic system, along with an acceptance that a bigger SUV, or house, or whatever, beyond a certain point doesn't really make an improvement in quality of life, and that being happy with "enough" is probably a better long term strategy than infinite growth on a finite planet.

[bravado]

I don’t agree on that one - growth is always possible. When the last “exploitable” labour pool is used up, everyone will have been chasing efficiency for decades… there’s a reason why we have more food than ever today and only 1% as many agricultural workers as we used to. The future doesn’t have to be zero-sum… the people who lost their job maintaining horse carriages could have had no idea the jobs that were to be created by the upcoming car, but to them the sky would have still been genuinely falling. Same with candlemakers and cobblers and those offices full of engineers with slide rules…

[Kodra24]

The Chinese example is perhaps the best one. They were remarkably poor generations ago, then massive investment brought manufacturing.

Now that their wages and standards of living are improved immensely, the manufacturing isn’t as compelling and is moving away to south east Asia and India for the next captive labour force and cheap resources.

The USA used to be the cheap resources and manufacturing source for Europe too - until they weren’t. It’s a normal cycle - we are all living in it. Trying to nail Jello to the wall and pretend like economics doesn’t apply to us is a fool’s errand.

Admittedly, this is why we are entering end stage capitalism. There are more and more developed countries, and fewer developing countries, which means there are fewer places to offshore for cheap labour. The capitalists are getting antsy about that.

But again, the solution is not protectionism, the solution is a better economic system, along with an acceptance that a bigger SUV, or house, or whatever, beyond a certain point doesn't really make an improvement in quality of life, and that being happy with "enough" is probably a better long term strategy than infinite growth on a finite planet.

A better economic system? OK sure please do tell, but in no way or shape can it affect free market principles, individual liberties and freedom of choice and limited government intervention

[Kodra24]

The Chinese example is perhaps the best one. They were remarkably poor generations ago, then massive investment brought manufacturing.

Now that their wages and standards of living are improved immensely, the manufacturing isn’t as compelling and is moving away to south east Asia and India for the next captive labour force and cheap resources.

The USA used to be the cheap resources and manufacturing source for Europe too - until they weren’t. It’s a normal cycle - we are all living in it. Trying to nail Jello to the wall and pretend like economics doesn’t apply to us is a fool’s errand.

I agree with your assessment but would like to add that the US and Canada have tremendous natural resources, many European countries do not nor does the EU as a whole (the EU can be a topic for another day, it's literally facing an existential crisis)

Along with technological innovation, energy is the cornerstone for future growth and the US is finally realizing the importance of strategic assets to protect its interests

[tomh009]

Trudeau has made plenty of mistakes as a PM over the years, but I'm quite pleased with how he, Joly, Leblanc, Ford and (most of) the other premiers are handling the situation (not negotiations, really, it takes two to tango). A united front, a firm response and good, clear communications to the media. We're not out of the woods yet, but kudos to Team Canada so far.

[dtkvictim]

Admittedly, this is why we are entering end stage capitalism. There are more and more developed countries, and fewer developing countries, which means there are fewer places to offshore for cheap labour. The capitalists are getting antsy about that.

But again, the solution is not protectionism, the solution is a better economic system, along with an acceptance that a bigger SUV, or house, or whatever, beyond a certain point doesn't really make an improvement in quality of life, and that being happy with "enough" is probably a better long term strategy than infinite growth on a finite planet.

A better economic system? OK sure please do tell, but in no way or shape can it affect free market principles, individual liberties and freedom of choice and limited government intervention

Have you not just been arguing against all of those ideals by advocating for protectionism?

In regards to your other posts here: How can you look at America and decide that their decision to effectively pioneer and champion modern globalization, to spread their influence through financial aid (which no, isn't just handing out money; the returns are calculated even if they are indirect) and other forms of soft power, and bringing stability to the world with interwoven financial interests and military projection... and then decide that this approach is harming the wealth of their people when they are already the predominant global economy? You think somehow they would be even further ahead?

Even if you believe that's true in regards to Canada and Mexico, why would you trust the president that literally signed the current, allegedly terrible, trade deal to solve this problem?

[danbrotherston]

The Chinese example is perhaps the best one. They were remarkably poor generations ago, then massive investment brought manufacturing.

Now that their wages and standards of living are improved immensely, the manufacturing isn’t as compelling and is moving away to south east Asia and India for the next captive labour force and cheap resources.

The USA used to be the cheap resources and manufacturing source for Europe too - until they weren’t. It’s a normal cycle - we are all living in it. Trying to nail Jello to the wall and pretend like economics doesn’t apply to us is a fool’s errand.

I agree with your assessment but would like to add that the US and Canada have tremendous natural resources, many European countries do not nor does the EU as a whole (the EU can be a topic for another day, it's literally facing an existential crisis)

Along with technological innovation, energy is the cornerstone for future growth and the US is finally realizing the importance of strategic assets to protect its interests

Countries who's wealth revolves around resource extraction rarely do well in metrics beyond "maximizing wealth for a few oligarchs". Many were colonized, which obviously turned out badly, but even when they are decolonized, things often do not improve much. Resource extraction is an industry that fundamentally or inherently facilitates concentration of wealth and disempowerment of people.

And yes, I'm sure you'll point out Norway, but that's an exception (as Scandinavia increasingly is) but the trend is clear in the developing world. Hell, the trend is even clear in the developed world, look at Canada, the US, and Australia. And even within these states, individual subnational states (provinces) where resource extraction is a larger part of the economy have more economic instability and a less empowered population. Look at West Virginia, the Dakotas, Alberta.

If you want a resource extraction based economy, you'd better also be clambering for Scandinavian style socialist democracy, otherwise you're really asking for a bad time (unless you happen to be an oligarch)

[danbrotherston]

Trudeau has made plenty of mistakes as a PM over the years, but I'm quite pleased with how he, Joly, Leblanc, Ford and (most of) the other premiers are handling the situation (not negotiations, really, it takes two to tango). A united front, a firm response and good, clear communications to the media. We're not out of the woods yet, but kudos to Team Canada so far.

Yes, generally I've been very impressed with how this situation has brought Canadians together. It's one of the few things that give me hope here.