ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[danbrotherston]

It really does feel like a slip road though. Yeah, anyone paying attention will realize within 2 seconds that it's tracks, but if even a small percentage of don't then you end up with a disaster every so often. There needs to be more signs and painted lines to make it more obvious.

It's a different colour, with a curb separating it, with lines in it. Frankly, anyone who ends up there by accident shouldn't be driving, they're either incompetent, or not paying attention. There's virtually no difference between ending up on the tracks and ending up on the sidewalk.

Honestly, at what point do we stop making excuses for drivers. But personally, I give most drivers more credit, I still don't think it's an accident.

[Canard]

Agreed, it doesn't feel like a slip road at all - anyone driving on the tracks there should get fined (or worse).

I don't get the aversion to just painting giant yellow hash marks on target areas of the rapidway, ala Gold Coast Light Rail. It looks pretty cool, to be honest, and it makes an absolute visual demarcation of the area you're not supposed to be in.

[JoeKW]

It really does feel like a slip road though. Yeah, anyone paying attention will realize within 2 seconds that it's tracks, but if even a small percentage of don't then you end up with a disaster every so often. There needs to be more signs and painted lines to make it more obvious.

It's a different colour, with a curb separating it, with lines in it.  Frankly, anyone who ends up there by accident shouldn't be driving, they're either incompetent, or not paying attention.  There's virtually no difference between ending up on the tracks and ending up on the sidewalk.

Honestly, at what point do we stop making excuses for drivers.  But personally, I give most drivers more credit, I still don't think it's an accident.

I mean, I agree with your points but terrible people are driving and will continue to drive and there's absolutely nothing that we can do about it... so shouldn't we design roads to account for that?

[ijmorlan]

Agreed, it doesn't feel like a slip road at all - anyone driving on the tracks there should get fined (or worse).

I don't get the aversion to just painting giant yellow hash marks on target areas of the rapidway, ala Gold Coast Light Rail.  It looks pretty cool, to be honest, and it makes an absolute visual demarcation of the area you're not supposed to be in.

Totally agreed. The Gold Coast system looks absolutely great, and the big “Tram Only” markings are part of it.

I can’t say if it would actually help — most of the areas in question already look pretty different from anything that anybody should be driving on. But it might make offenders look like idiots to a bigger slice of the population.

I like the pictures of people in the Toronto streetcar tunnel. I think that there should be a prima facie presumption that anybody who drives more than about a car length past the point where the flat surface ends is impaired, and they should be charged and penalized accordingly. Enough is enough. At some point, there is enough signage and the problem is idiot and/or impaired drivers, not people who have made a good-faith error.

[KevinL]

One problem with marking concrete I can point out already - our winters are BRUTAL to it. Most of the new zebra-crossing lines that went in last fall have at least some small damage, it's quite extreme in some spots. Though maybe that's a side-effect of the contractor/method they used?

[danbrotherston]

It's a different colour, with a curb separating it, with lines in it.  Frankly, anyone who ends up there by accident shouldn't be driving, they're either incompetent, or not paying attention.  There's virtually no difference between ending up on the tracks and ending up on the sidewalk.

Honestly, at what point do we stop making excuses for drivers.  But personally, I give most drivers more credit, I still don't think it's an accident.

I mean, I agree with your points but terrible people are driving and will continue to drive and there's absolutely nothing that we can do about it... so shouldn't we design roads to account for that?

I agree, we should have used a barrier curb instead of a roll curb.  I have no idea why they're so opposed to such things.

[jeffster]

I wonder how many are going to go onto the tracks when turning right from Borden (where the Tim Hortons is) onto Charles.

Which brings me to a different point in regards to slip lanes (or roads). I've always noticed that a lot of drivers really don't understand how to use slip lanes.

Take for example, at one time, coming off of Highway 8(SB) onto Fairway, their used to be a slip lane there. However, a lot of stopped. This was a pure slip lane, not stopping, no yielding. Now we have a "No Right on Red"; and some barrel through like it's a slip lane.

Same for Fisher-Hallman and Ottawa. Turning right from Fisher-Hallman onto Ottawa, that is a slip lane. And again, people are stopping when they should be going (though drivers still need to yield to pedestrians).

We can try to educate drivers, but no matter what, there are many that should not be allowed to drive on the road.

What's going on in Toronto though...that's just "wow, people are dumb".

[Canard]

One problem with marking concrete I can point out already - our winters are BRUTAL to it. Most of the new zebra-crossing lines that went in last fall have at least some small damage, it's quite extreme in some spots. Though maybe that's a side-effect of the contractor/method they used?

But... we have lane markings everywhere in the entire country. I don't really know how to word this but I don't see how it would be any different from painting any other marking.

[ijmorlan]

One problem with marking concrete I can point out already - our winters are BRUTAL to it. Most of the new zebra-crossing lines that went in last fall have at least some small damage, it's quite extreme in some spots. Though maybe that's a side-effect of the contractor/method they used?

But... we have lane markings everywhere in the entire country.  I don't really know how to word this but I don't see how it would be any different from painting any other marking.

And those other lane markings are driven on and therefore subject to wear! These ones wouldn’t be.

[KevinL]

All I can say is, take a close look a the zebra stripes that went down in the fall on the concrete guideway sections (particularly in downtown Kitchener). The white material that was put down is chipping and flaking away at a concerning rate.

[Canard]

Well almost all pavement markings go away fast. That’s why they need to be maintained... just like any other place where there is paint. So it is not something new...

It will probably take a few accidents before a change is effected. KC and Cinci both had multiple LRV crashes before service started.

[NotStan]

Well almost all pavement markings go away fast. That’s why they need to be maintained... just like any other place where there is paint. So it is not something new...

It will probably take a few accidents before a change is effected. KC and Cinci both had multiple LRV crashes before service started.

Can they set up red light cameras at the intersection here.  That would provide continuous enforcement.

[Viewfromthe42]

Agreed, it doesn't feel like a slip road at all - anyone driving on the tracks there should get fined (or worse).

I don't get the aversion to just painting giant yellow hash marks on target areas of the rapidway, ala Gold Coast Light Rail.  It looks pretty cool, to be honest, and it makes an absolute visual demarcation of the area you're not supposed to be in.

Totally agreed. The Gold Coast system looks absolutely great, and the big “Tram Only” markings are part of it.

I can’t say if it would actually help — most of the areas in question already look pretty different from anything that anybody should be driving on. But it might make offenders look like idiots to a bigger slice of the population.

I like the pictures of people in the Toronto streetcar tunnel. I think that there should be a prima facie presumption that anybody who drives more than about a car length past the point where the flat surface ends is impaired, and they should be charged and penalized accordingly. Enough is enough. At some point, there is enough signage and the problem is idiot and/or impaired drivers, not people who have made a good-faith error.

Excessive and visually disruptive paint was one of the (successful?) arguments used against adding bike lanes to Union St by the local residents there, so...

[tomh009]

All I can say is, take a close look a the zebra stripes that went down in the fall on the concrete guideway sections (particularly in downtown Kitchener). The white material that was put down is chipping and flaking away at a concerning rate.

I would say this is actually a good thing, given how sloppy the painting was!  Maybe they can redo it with a little bit more care.

[ijmorlan]

Excessive and visually disruptive paint was one of the (successful?) arguments used against adding bike lanes to Union St by the local residents there, so...

I keep thinking I’ve heard the stupidest thing ever, and I keep being proven wrong. Wow! That’s just shockingly stupid.

The city should have removed all markings from the road, including the yellow line down the middle.