ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[ijmorlan]

 Why do we have two platforms at Conestoga? Obviously Fairway has two platforms to handle being extended, but what's the reasoning for Conestoga?

If the line ever gets busy enough that incoming trains need to yield to outgoing, then there's room for both.

If that is the intent, they should have built a centre platform.

[ac3r]

Are both platforms typically used at Fairway and Conestoga?

No. I have never actually been to the Conestoga station, but only one platform is used at Fairway that I've seen.

But that got me wondering: Why do we have two platforms at Conestoga? Obviously Fairway has two platforms to handle being extended, but what's the reasoning for Conestoga?

On rare occasions it'll pull into the less commonly used platform. It's more frequent during rush hour when there's trains every 10 minutes though they don't actually need to do that from what I understand. I just know I've been waiting to catch it before and it pulls into the other side at Fairway Station and there's been a few times I've seen one train leave and another pull in to the other platform (which is odd since even during rush hour they're on a ten minute headway).

As for the reasoning at Conestoga...I have wondered that myself. Maybe they built it for future proofing for future expansion of the line. As we grow, we'll need additional LRT lines in the region. Or when train headways get frequent enough that it's just easier to have two platforms, rather than on switching the tracks over each time. Another reason may be potential mechanical failure of the switches. If one broke for whatever reason, then they could still be guaranteed to go all the way to the terminus rather than stopping at Northfield. ijmorlan also raised a good point re boarding, but I think the reasoning has more to do with future proofing.

[dtkvictim]

Yeah, it can get very packed, especially near the universities. I wonder what the lead time is to getting new trains delivered and tested? And while not required at all AFAIK, it would be nice to have platforms fully kitted out when running sets.

How packed is it? No seats, or no standing room? Need to wait for the next train?

During the 5-6PM rush hour, going through the universities, standing room can be tight. Not bodies pressed against each other, but grow ridership much more and they would be. It's been a bit since I was riding during that time, so I'm not sure how seasonal things are.

When I ride off peak (7-9PM) it's more comfortable, but no guarantee you'll be getting a seat.

I've never needed to wait for another train.

[ac3r]

"Minor" service delay going southbound at the moment. Did another moron crash into the train I wonder?

Edit: Just resumed. Guess I should have been patient, now I'm walking lol, though being on the train during rush hour sucks anyway.

Edit 2: I gave drivers the benefit of the doubt, oops. Turns out a transport truck derailed the entire thing. Shoutout to @Tomaste9 in the replies saying "The lrt seems like a disaster" as if it isn't drivers who have no business driving being the ones crashing into the train.

Also I'm sure anyone who has taken the train recently has overheard the messages at the stations, but as of November 1st manual door operation returns.

[KevinL]

The reason we don't have centre platforms at the two termini is because in both cases, the end of the platform was too close to a cross street to allow the width of crossover tracks required; going with side platforms shortened the crossovers enough to fit.

[panamaniac]

"Minor" service delay going southbound at the moment. Did another moron crash into the train I wonder?

Edit: Just resumed. Guess I should have been patient, now I'm walking lol, though being on the train during rush hour sucks anyway.

Edit 2: I gave drivers the benefit of the doubt, oops. Turns out a transport truck derailed the entire thing. Shoutout to @Tomaste9 in the replies saying "The lrt seems like a disaster" as if it isn't drivers who have no business driving being the ones crashing into the train.

Also I'm sure anyone who has taken the train recently has overheard the messages at the stations, but as of November 1st manual door operation returns.

What is it about that stretch of Ottawa that seems to generate so many problems?  Just coincidence?

[Rainrider22]

This intersection has a green light with a separate light that turns on to advise no right turn because of train. It is conflicting messaging to the average person, They see green light and they make a right turn. My buddy owns a business at that corner and witnesses the accidents and near misses all the time Simple fix would be to freeze the intersection for the train. Problem solved

[danbrotherston]

"Minor" service delay going southbound at the moment. Did another moron crash into the train I wonder?

Edit: Just resumed. Guess I should have been patient, now I'm walking lol, though being on the train during rush hour sucks anyway.

Edit 2: I gave drivers the benefit of the doubt, oops. Turns out a transport truck derailed the entire thing. Shoutout to @Tomaste9 in the replies saying "The lrt seems like a disaster" as if it isn't drivers who have no business driving being the ones crashing into the train.

Also I'm sure anyone who has taken the train recently has overheard the messages at the stations, but as of November 1st manual door operation returns.

What is it about that stretch of Ottawa that seems to generate so many problems?  Just coincidence?

I think it's a fairly simple case of more traffic = more idiot drivers.

[danbrotherston]

This intersection has a green light with a separate light that turns on to advise no right turn because of train.  It is conflicting messaging to the average person,  They see green light and they make a right turn.  My buddy owns a business at that corner and witnesses the accidents and near misses all the time  Simple fix would be to freeze the intersection for the train.  Problem solved

I mean, people constantly complain that the region didn't do this enough.

But let's be clear here, that isn't a solution because drivers which do not look and see and avoid crashing into the 80 foot 30 tonne LRV are the same drivers who kill pedestrians and then *shrug* and complain "they appeared out of nowhere".

The simple fix is to start holding drivers to a higher standard, and revoking the licenses of the ones who fail. Incidentally, this would also fix traffic congestion, pollution, etc.

[danbrotherston]

The reason we don't have centre platforms at the two termini is because in both cases, the end of the platform was too close to a cross street to allow the width of crossover tracks required; going with side platforms shortened the crossovers enough to fit.

I'm not sure I fully understand this. Why can't the crossover occur in the intersection? Or...beyond the intersection? TTC has switches IN the intersections all the time.

[KevinL]

The reason we don't have centre platforms at the two termini is because in both cases, the end of the platform was too close to a cross street to allow the width of crossover tracks required; going with side platforms shortened the crossovers enough to fit.

I'm not sure I fully understand this. Why can't the crossover occur in the intersection? Or...beyond the intersection? TTC has switches IN the intersections all the time.

You have to recall how baseline the expectations were during planning - anything too far off normal would (allegedly) risk support for the project as a whole. Switches embedded in asphalt would be more expensive, trains moving slower through switches in the crossing would have the cross traffic stopped for longer periods, etc.

If a solution was cheaper and offended fewer drivers, it was selected.

[ijmorlan]

The reason we don't have centre platforms at the two termini is because in both cases, the end of the platform was too close to a cross street to allow the width of crossover tracks required; going with side platforms shortened the crossovers enough to fit.

I'm not sure I fully understand this. Why can't the crossover occur in the intersection? Or...beyond the intersection? TTC has switches IN the intersections all the time.

Those are streetcar switches. Not to say that it’s impossible to do, but it’s a specialized arrangement and in general I believe railways avoid putting points in level crossings. I’ve actually seen the avoidance of points in a level crossing given as a justification for gauntlet track: the points can be on one side of the level crossing, then gauntlet track can take both tracks, overlapped with each other, through the level crossing, then finally the tracks can diverge on the other side. You’re right though that putting the crossovers immediately the other side of the level crossings shouldn’t be a big problem.

That being said, I say to the previous poster, “cite please”. While it is true that the crossovers at both sites are quite near to the closest level crossing, a casual glance at the aerial photography suggests multiple approaches to accommodating centre platforms. Unless there is a source from within the project team about their specific reasons for the design, their explanation is just supposition.

To be fair, the same applies, at least in principle, to my observation about the TTC subway terminus platforms; but in that case the consistent policy of always building center platforms at stations intended to be permanent termini, as well as their usual mode of operation requiring the use of both tracks, provide strong support that the reason I give is indeed the reason.

[KevinL]

That being said, I say to the previous poster, “cite please”. While it is true that the crossovers at both sites are quite near to the closest level crossing, a casual glance at the aerial photography suggests multiple approaches to accommodating centre platforms. Unless there is a source from within the project team about their specific reasons for the design, their explanation is just supposition.

I don't have a document I can point you to, but I clearly recall the discourse from the time and this was the (primary) reasoning given.

[dtkvictim]

This intersection has a green light with a separate light that turns on to advise no right turn because of train.  It is conflicting messaging to the average person,  They see green light and they make a right turn.  My buddy owns a business at that corner and witnesses the accidents and near misses all the time  Simple fix would be to freeze the intersection for the train.  Problem solved

I mean, people constantly complain that the region didn't do this enough.

But let's be clear here, that isn't a solution because drivers which do not look and see and avoid crashing into the 80 foot 30 tonne LRV are the same drivers who kill pedestrians and then *shrug* and complain "they appeared out of nowhere".

The simple fix is to start holding drivers to a higher standard, and revoking the licenses of the ones who fail. Incidentally, this would also fix traffic congestion, pollution, etc.

I'm sure the people who miss the large "train coming no right turn" sign would still try to turn right on red, and still fail to see the train. Perhaps it would be even be worse as they wouldn't expect anyone to be passing on the right on a red. The same setup is used at Charles St & Ontario St, and I can hear the train lay on its horn at least once a day.

[timio]

The solution is automatic bollards that come up restricting movement every time there's a train nearby. Where's the bollard lobby when you need them?