General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours

[ijmorlan]

Given that garages can be converted to indoor space, but usually are not, is indicative that this isn't true. People might prefer storage to garage (this is pretty clear) but indoor space conversions are pretty rare.

That being said, space is generally more at a premium in apartments than homes. But as someone who lived in an apartment without a balcony, I can tell you that it was sorely missed. Being able to go outside for a breath of fresh air without going all the way out of the building is a major quality of life improvement on apartment living. I think folks here are under rating it. Just because something is infrequently used does not mean it is not highly valuable.

Also, just because people would make some choice about their living arrangements does not mean it actually maximizes their QoL. How many people commute 2 hours each way to work in the GTA just to own a larger detached home instead of a smaller row house closer in. All data indicates these people are making choices which harm their QoL.

I should clarify that when I mentioned garages, the part that I think is the same is conversion to another use, not specifically turning into another indoor room. For garages I think the actual use of many garages says that many people turn out to really want storage space and bicycle parking rather than an (or an additional) indoor car parking spot. I think those uses could be satisfied much more cheaply than by building an entire garage.

That being said, a garage can be either so there is something to be said for flexibility.

Anyway, my main point is that people buy and rent based on how they think they will use a space, not on how they will actually use it. And developers, quite naturally, build to satisfy people’s buying/renting personalities, not their ordinary living personalities.

[plam]

I should clarify that when I mentioned garages, the part that I think is the same is conversion to another use, not specifically turning into another indoor room. For garages I think the actual use of many garages says that many people turn out to really want storage space and bicycle parking rather than an (or an additional) indoor car parking spot. I think those uses could be satisfied much more cheaply than by building an entire garage.

That being said, a garage can be either so there is something to be said for flexibility.

Anyway, my main point is that people buy and rent based on how they think they will use a space, not on how they will actually use it. And developers, quite naturally, build to satisfy people’s buying/renting personalities, not their ordinary living personalities.

Yes, mostly bicycle storage here. Other storage is mostly inside my place. Sheds are obviously a cheaper alternative to garages but don't really work as well for multi-unit residences (then again, neither are parking garages). Bicycle rooms seem to be a good target for theft.

People buy things all the time based on aspiration (cf SUV purchases).

[danbrotherston]

Given that garages can be converted to indoor space, but usually are not, is indicative that this isn't true. People might prefer storage to garage (this is pretty clear) but indoor space conversions are pretty rare.

That being said, space is generally more at a premium in apartments than homes. But as someone who lived in an apartment without a balcony, I can tell you that it was sorely missed. Being able to go outside for a breath of fresh air without going all the way out of the building is a major quality of life improvement on apartment living. I think folks here are under rating it. Just because something is infrequently used does not mean it is not highly valuable.

Also, just because people would make some choice about their living arrangements does not mean it actually maximizes their QoL. How many people commute 2 hours each way to work in the GTA just to own a larger detached home instead of a smaller row house closer in. All data indicates these people are making choices which harm their QoL.

I should clarify that when I mentioned garages, the part that I think is the same is conversion to another use, not specifically turning into another indoor room. For garages I think the actual use of many garages says that many people turn out to really want storage space and bicycle parking rather than an (or an additional) indoor car parking spot. I think those uses could be satisfied much more cheaply than by building an entire garage.

That being said, a garage can be either so there is something to be said for flexibility.

Anyway, my main point is that people buy and rent based on how they think they will use a space, not on how they will actually use it. And developers, quite naturally, build to satisfy people’s buying/renting personalities, not their ordinary living personalities.

Fair enough, "conversion" into storage is ... easier. I'd argue that it's basically already storage and it's really just the resident's choice of what to put in it. FWIW, to me garages in Canada make sense because we have snow.

That being said, I don't think you could actually create storage that cheaply. Garages I think are a little cheaper than true indoor space, because they have no basement usually, and storage is usually indoor space. If you just want a shed, well, that's usually a detached structure and that doesn't really have the same features as a garage.

Also sheds vary a lot in cost. A shed from home depot is cheap. Sheds here in the NLs differ only from garages in size, otherwise they are the same construction and have electrical lighting and outlets, and I don't think they'd be any cheaper than a garage at least per square foot.

I do agree with your main point---mostly. People buy/rent based on how they envision using a space, but that vision is at least partially if not substantially driven by social values and images at least partially under the control of the media. Basically people want garages because they see garages on TV...and this would be an interesting thing one could study. How often are garages on TV used to store cars vs. how often people use them to store cars.

...

Yes, mostly bicycle storage here. Other storage is mostly inside my place. Sheds are obviously a cheaper alternative to garages but don't really work as well for multi-unit residences (then again, neither are parking garages). Bicycle rooms seem to be a good target for theft.

People buy things all the time based on aspiration (cf SUV purchases).

Lol...I was impressed, multi-residential buildings here all have storage rooms. And they are quite a bit better and more accessible than the storage locker we had in our apartment in Canada (they even have matching keyed locks, where most storage lockers in Canada have a pad lock). Many people do store bikes in them.

As for bike storage, I did see one common bike room, but often people just store their bikes outside the building when they don't use their storage room.

[dtkvictim]

Somehow the only valid complaint against garages, IMO, hasn't been mentioned yet. And that's how damn ugly they are, usually taking up over half of a house's street presence on anything built in the last 50-60 years.

[danbrotherston]

Somehow the only valid complaint against garages, IMO, hasn't been mentioned yet. And that's how damn ugly they are, usually taking up over half of a house's street presence on anything built in the last 50-60 years.

Yeah, this is a valid objection, especially homes where the front door is tucked away behind the garage and the garage makes the entire front of the house.

FWIW, this basically never happens in the Netherlands, houses with garages are generally larger and garages are rarely more than 1 vehicle wide.

The only exception is this street near me:

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1881248,...?entry=ttu

But these aren't houses, it's literally just a bank of garages...and having seen inside one, presumably largely used as sheds or small workshops.

Still, the use of single doors to me makes it still less problematic than places in Canada.

That being said, I still prefer a row of garages to a street overwhelmed by parked cars. A lot of folks (not unreasonably) argue for street parking instead of garages, but I think that actually creates an uglier place (and this is something that the Netherlands is actually quite bad at, their are many roads like this). Really, I think we need fewer cars, but if we really must have vehicles than my preference is for garages behind homes accessible either through narrow driveways or from a rear alley.

[tomh009]

Lol...I was impressed, multi-residential buildings here all have storage rooms. And they are quite a bit better and more accessible than the storage locker we had in our apartment in Canada (they even have matching keyed locks, where most storage lockers in Canada have a pad lock). Many people do store bikes in them.

As for bike storage, I did see one common bike room, but often people just store their bikes outside the building when they don't use their storage room.

In Finland, basically all apartments/condos have storage lockers (yes, with locks that work with your usual key), typically around 1x2m. I have never seen anyone storing bicycles in those, though, usually they are either in the common bike room (requires the key, again), locked outside or in one's own apartment.

In our condo building here in Kitchener, fewer than half the units have storage lockers, and even then those lockers are quite small, about 1x1m.

[danbrotherston]

Lol...I was impressed, multi-residential buildings here all have storage rooms. And they are quite a bit better and more accessible than the storage locker we had in our apartment in Canada (they even have matching keyed locks, where most storage lockers in Canada have a pad lock). Many people do store bikes in them.

As for bike storage, I did see one common bike room, but often people just store their bikes outside the building when they don't use their storage room.

In Finland, basically all apartments/condos have storage lockers (yes, with locks that work with your usual key), typically around 1x2m. I have never seen anyone storing bicycles in those, though, usually they are either in the common bike room (requires the key, again), locked outside or in one's own apartment.

In our condo building here in Kitchener, fewer than half the units have storage lockers, and even then those lockers are quite small, about 1x1m.

Wow...1x1 is tiny!

My storage locker in my unit was 1.5x2.5, it was a reasonable size, but not big enough to conveniently store a bicycle. (We were told to store our bikes in our parking spaces).

The lockers in the apartment buildings we've seen in the Netherlands have all been much bigger, easily large enough to store several bikes and accessible on the ground level either through 1 main door, or directly with the door to the storage unit in a few cases.

Definitely the details matter, locking bikes in a 1x1 storage unit in the basement is obviously not feasible.

[panamaniac]

I lucked out in my condo - the storage room is across the hallway from my unit and measures 5X2 metres.

[tomh009]

Wow!

[danbrotherston]

That's huge, almost as big as a garage.

[kps]

Somehow the only valid complaint against garages, IMO, hasn't been mentioned yet. And that's how damn ugly they are, usually taking up over half of a house's street presence on anything built in the last 50-60 years.

That's due to the ubiquitous bylaws that forbid parking in front of a house except on a driveway leading to a garage. (My ‘garage’ is a woodshop, but I can't replace the garage door with something more appealing because then I could no longer legally use my driveway.)

[ijmorlan]

That's due to the ubiquitous bylaws that forbid parking in front of a house except on a driveway leading to a garage. (My ‘garage’ is a woodshop, but I can't replace the garage door with something more appealing because then I could no longer legally use my driveway.)

It’s stuff like this that makes me think most zoning regulations should simply be repealed, and no new ones should be created unless we can get a much higher class of people to write them. It shouldn’t take much thought to realize that a rule like that won’t have the intended effect.

[tomh009]

Somehow the only valid complaint against garages, IMO, hasn't been mentioned yet. And that's how damn ugly they are, usually taking up over half of a house's street presence on anything built in the last 50-60 years.

That's due to the ubiquitous bylaws that forbid parking in front of a house except on a driveway leading to a garage. (My ‘garage’ is a woodshop, but I can't replace the garage door with something more appealing because then I could no longer legally use my driveway.)

Barn doors should qualify as "garage doors".

[Acitta]

Downtown Kitchener poised for recovery from COVID
U of T study backs Kitchener’s long-running initiative to support and diversify the city centre

(note: The Record changed their website, so it is no longer possible to read a whole article without paying for a subscription. I actually bought a copy of Saturday's Record printed on paper, like people used to do in the olden days of the last century).
Correction: It seems that you just have to log in to a registered account, and you can read articles without buying a subscription.

[ac3r]

KPL and I believe WPL offer free access to The Record as well. But getting around paywalls and logins is easy enough if you block certain things or just use a VPN.