ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[rangersfan]

Completely agree with the 30 min service time for Ion on the weekends being ridiculous. When you spend 1.7 billion dollars for a new transit system ( build + operating) this is not the service level you are hoping for.

[Rainrider22]

Agreed re the service frequency for weekends...Very disappointing !!!

[Canard]

It is, but I should point out we've known this for years:

http://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca/...7RFPV3.pdf

I don't remember when the Project Agreement documents came online but I think it was like 2014.

30 minutes is awful, I agree. 15 minutes is barely acceptable. You can see now why they really don't want to open the system with anything less than the full compliment of trains!

[ijmorlan]

It is, but I should point out we've known this for years:

http://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca/...7RFPV3.pdf

I don't remember when the Project Agreement documents came online but I think it was like 2014.

30 minutes is awful, I agree. 15 minutes is barely acceptable. You can see now why they really don't want to open the system with anything less than the full compliment of trains!

Well, I don’t know about that — 30 minute service can be provide by 3, maybe 4 vehicles, so I don’t know why we need to wait for the rest to arrive. The problem would be the 30 minute service all the time, not just Sunday evening or whenever.

Actually, more seriously, I think opening with 15 minute service all the time would be OK. You would be at the target frequency in low-traffic times, and I think people would understand the service not ramping up to planned peak service when the vehicles to do so are not yet available.

I think the service should run at 15 minute frequency at worst. The only incremental cost of running more service is the payroll and some vehicle wear — everything else has been paid for.

[KevinL]

The Region will pay Grandlinq for operations based on how much time they run the trains. More trains are directly on the Region's dime, which will hopefully be offset with the fares it collects. I'm very hopeful that higher frequency directly correlates with higher ridership.

[ijmorlan]

The Region will pay Grandlinq for operations based on how much time they run the trains. More trains are directly on the Region's dime, which will hopefully be offset with the fares it collects. I'm very hopeful that higher frequency directly correlates with higher ridership.

Definitely, and in fact I have some hope that the service anticipated by the project agreement is a minimum that our transit planners hope to exceed. Especially given that lowballing the amount of service in the RFP would have reduced the headline cost of the contract, which in our political climate may have been important.

[Canard]

If ever there was a time to use the term "Penny wise and pound foolish..."

Trying to cheap out by running trains less frequently seems like it would be about the worst possible solution to trying to save a few bucks.

I will happily volunteer to drive an extra train in the off hours.

[ijmorlan]

If ever there was a time to use the term "Penny wise and pound foolish..."

Trying to cheap out by running trains less frequently seems like it would be about the worst possible solution to trying to save a few bucks.

I will happily volunteer to drive an extra train in the off hours.

Makes me wonder what the actual market price of train driving is. I’d drive one for pretty cheap too

I guess there is that small matter of training but I’d probably be OK with going through that process too. They just might not want to pay for it for the actual total number of shifts I’d end up taking.

Agreed though — running more trains off-peak doesn’t significantly increase capital costs — it’s not much more than the driver. And if you can get the bar crowd out of cars and onto transit, that’s a pretty big win I should think, although the cab companies might not be happy.

[Canard]

You can ask Keolis about this next weekend at the Open House!

[ert86]

In looking at the 2018 GRT service plan I was surprised to see that Ion peak service is only 10min during spring and summer instead of 8. Was that always the case?

Also Ion service at only 30min on weekends is ridiculous. People will not get out of their cars to run errands, to come downtown for a night out, or for festivals for 30min service.

I wonder if the proposed service times have changed since the last year when I came across a pdf with potential schedules.  Unfortunately I can find it on my Comp, and cant find it on the new GRT site.

Anyway, the one thing I do kinda remember is that Sunday/Holiday morning will start just before or just after 6AM and run every 15 min, and service running as late as roughly 2am. IF they keep that start time I'll keep suing transit, but I'm near the end of my rope of waiting for better Sunday morning service. I get off work at 6:15AM 1st bus is 1.5 hours later, Also under 800M from an ION stop.

[Canard]

Was it this, ert86?

http://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca/...7RFPV3.pdf

[Pheidippides]

I suppose one good thing about the delay in the start of revenue service is that it is a shorter time to wait for improved headways* and longer service hours in 2021 (of course that assumes we have 16 vehicles by then).

I would almost be willing to tolerate 10min headways if it meant better service on the weekends and evenings. I think part of that is that going 8min headways during the week to 30min headways on weekends (a 275% increase!) is such a huge increase in wait time compared to going from say 10min to 20min (a 100% increase). It is like getting a new computer or phone; suddenly your old one seems (and actually is) so much slower you never use it again even though still does everything you need it to.

I question the accuracy and currency of those baseline service tables. For instance, the chart version of 2017-2020 Saturday service shows service terminating at 10-10:30pm, but the table version shows service terminating at 11:30pm (which is still early I think). Plus, the assumption is that every trip will take 46min, which they won't know until they get the trains and signals out and working.



*Some time periods get more frequent service others get less frequent (e.g. Saturday nights headways actually increase earlier in the evening, but service runs longer in to the night)

[Canard]

Uh, I think the entire schedule would shift. I don't think it's as if service didn't start for 2 years they'd keep the schedule exactly as-is. The dates are assuming it opened... basically now.

[Pheidippides]

I was trying to be more positive for a change (and very subtly poking at Bombardier)!

[tomh009]

For instance, the chart version of 2017-2020 Saturday service shows service terminating at 10-10:30pm, but the table version shows service terminating at 11:30pm (which is still early I think).

Seriously?  Wouldn't we want people using the LRT to get home after a Saturday night on the town?