ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[KevinT]

I think the issue with every 5 minutes or 3 minutes is disruption of traffic.  If you think of the Courtland(Fairway) rail crossing, you'd basically see a train every 90 seconds (1 in either direction every 3 minutes).  I think 7 minutes is good for our region.

Cars block cars every 90 seconds all over the city, its called traffic lights.

If running a train every 3 minutes is justified then that means there's a helluvalot of people on those trains (if there weren't, then there'd be no reason to run them so often).  How is it that its okay for a few cars carrying 1.3 people each to block other cars every 90 seconds, but if a single train with 60 to 120 people in it blocks some cars it's a disruption?  The self-entitled mindset of car drivers really needs to change...

[Canard]

@ijmorlan: No city has attempted a Light Rail/Tramway system in an urban environment with crossings and so on automatically. Alstom has done some automated yard-movement stuff in Paris on an experimental basis, but that’s it.

There’s no need - headways can be as close as busses, almost, without automation. There is only a gain in big trains with large stopping distances. I think you are incorrectly extrapolating what is happening in Toronto on the subway to our LRT.

[ijmorlan]

@ijmorlan: No city has attempted a Light Rail/Tramway system in an urban environment with crossings and so on automatically. Alstom has done some automated yard-movement stuff in Paris on an experimental basis, but that’s it.

There’s no need - headways can be as close as busses, almost, without automation. There is only a gain in big trains with large stopping distances. I think you are incorrectly extrapolating what is happening in Toronto on the subway to our LRT.

I’m not extrapolating from Toronto. I’m extrapolating from the self-driving car news we see everywhere. If self-driving cars are really possible, then self-driving LRVs, including in mixed traffic, are definitely possible. While it wouldn’t be the best design, simply hooking up the self-driving car’s collision-avoidance system to the emergency brake and making it otherwise exactly like existing ATO systems would work as long as there was a way to disengage the emergency brake when the hazard condition no longer exists.

The fact that ATO is still seen as absolutely requiring total right-of-way separation is one of the reasons why I am skeptical about self-driving cars. But on the other hand, we see things like Uber placing an order for thousands of cars intended to be modified to be self-driving. News like that feels like more than a publicity stunt. So overall, I don’t feel confident in my ability to predict where the self-driving car story is going. But it is definitely much easier to make a self-driving LRT than a self-driving car.

And it does matter because labour is a significant cost. The only reason somebody would even suggest running 2-car trains every 30 minutes instead of single cars every 15 minutes is to save on labour. When the numbers get down to shorter headways then other issues such as line management and how often the crossings trigger come into play but at wider headways the only benefit of longer trains is reduced labour costs.

[danbrotherston]

...

The fact that ATO is still seen as absolutely requiring total right-of-way separation is one of the reasons why I am skeptical about self-driving cars. But on the other hand, we see things like Uber placing an order for thousands of cars intended to be modified to be self-driving. News like that feels like more than a publicity stunt. So overall, I don’t feel confident in my ability to predict where the self-driving car story is going. But it is definitely much easier to make a self-driving LRT than a self-driving car.

...

ATO requirements have zero to do with technology, and everything to do with policy, disregard them entirely in terms of the technological possibilities of self driving cars.

Self driving car technology is certainly within the realm of feasibility in the next 5-10 years minimum. Uber is definitely pulling a stunt, but looking at Google's (Waymo I guess) self driving car, it is very very good, I suspect already better than human drivers.

But the actual question is where the policy for self driving cars will go. Hopefully, it will keep safety as a top priority, but given the amount of money involved (literally tens of millions of jobs in the US alone), there's a huge amount of interest in this technology, and money makes the world go round.

Which is the actual issue facing society related to self driving cars, what will millions (at least) of out of work drivers do.

That's my 2c anyway.

Maybe they can drive LRT vehicles still governed by massively out of date regulations.

[kidgibnick]

World’s first "smart train" with virtual tracks launched in Hunan, China. Essentially, it's a guided, driverless, electric-bus disguised as a tram. Would have less disruptive than the ION too
https://youtu.be/Lqgvk6LWUDk
https://youtu.be/2i3aVMKBgFU

[Canard]

...and 20 years behind the game.

Has anyone spotted any LRV action along the Test Track or OMSF in the past week or so?

It’s been awfully quiet. Makes you wonder, eh?

[ijmorlan]

World’s first "smart train" with virtual tracks launched in Hunan, China. Essentially, it's a guided, driverless, electric-bus disguised as a tram. Would have less disruptive than the ION too
https://youtu.be/Lqgvk6LWUDk
https://youtu.be/2i3aVMKBgFU

Why do you think it would be less disruptive than the construction we experienced?

[Canard]

Can we please also discuss the Straddlebus? Because it would fit right in with where this is heading.

[ijmorlan]

Can we please also discuss the Straddlebus? Because it would fit right in with where this is heading.

Aerobus FTW!

[KevinL]

It's also drifting off topic - we already have a transit vehicles thread.

[Canard]

Yup, and some good news coming up!

[timio]

...Which you could share as you are a public citizen, not bound by confidentiality clauses...

Or continue to be coy and let people speculate about the hover buses the Region has budgeted for in fiscal year 2059. Just saying...

[DHLawrence]

Aww, I was hoping for catbuses!

[Coke6pk]

I'm putting the Las Vegas bus back out here....

   

Coke

[Pheidippides]

Yup, and some good news coming up!

Bombardier hiring CN to do a version of CP's holiday train to bring us our remaining 12 trains at once as a holiday miracle?