Station Park | 18, 28, 36, 43, 50 fl | U/C

[Momo26]

Well, couple things I know, or at least know to best of my knowledge:

Total residential is planned for 4 buildings - these are buildings one and two.

There will be a mixed commercial and condo for a 5th but if a big enough anchor tenant - a la a massive tech firm - wants the whole thing, that could be the 5th. A grocery store will be part of the ground floor "shopping".

The promoters anticipate intense and quick sales based off the interest they have had so far. It's noteworthy, unlike some past premier developments, a significant portion of units are planned to be sold to out of town buyers/investors...DTK and Young blasted the GTA client base hard. One can justify higher prices this way.

Agreed externally the Sixo looked cooler.

Pricing not yet released...If pricing is like DTK - albeit one must factor in those were selling 1.5 years ago - good luck spurring local buyers...the price will nonetheless be attractive to GTA clients.

[panamaniac]

Well, couple things I know, or at least know to best of my knowledge:

Total residential is planned for 4 buildings - these are buildings one and two.

There will be a mixed commercial and condo for a 5th but if a big enough anchor tenant - a la a massive tech firm - wants the whole thing, that could be the 5th. A grocery store will be part of the ground floor "shopping".

The promoters anticipate intense and quick sales based off the interest they have had so far. It's noteworthy, unlike some past premier developments, a significant portion of units are planned to be sold to out of town buyers/investors...DTK and Young blasted the GTA client base hard. One can justify higher prices this way.

Agreed externally the Sixo looked cooler.

Pricing not yet released...If pricing is like DTK - albeit one must factor in those were selling 1.5 years ago - good luck spurring local buyers...the price will nonetheless be attractive to GTA clients.

Kitchener north of 600 per soft yet?

[tomh009]

I fail to understand why all families need three bedrooms.

  
Need?  Probably more of a practical want for families with 1+ kids, family members/visitors from out of town, etc.  Kind of like having more than one bathroom - comes in handy sometimes.

Yes, handy sometimes. But how many families would pay another $100K (or whatever) for that rarely-used space?

Our building, like most others, has one 1BR and 2BR units. And yet we do have families with kids living here. Even ones with multiple kids.

For families with multiple kids, I see the desire for a third bedroom. (Yes, I shared a bedroom with my brother until I was 15, but it's not the same world today.) But many families have only one child, and my point was that not all of those need a three-bedroom unit.

[tomh009]

Kitchener north of 600 per soft yet?

I think only at OTIS.

[Momo26]

Kitchener north of 600 per soft yet?

I think only at OTIS.

Im anticipating some will be, with parking. 

We are arguably entering entry level Mississauga/Ajax-Pickering terroritory and from I believe Newmarket and Oshawa pricing now (although I haven’t checked recently)...

where do do you people stand on how much is too much for KW right now?

[Lens]

Is it really "too high for KW" if 90% of the buyers are from the gta, etc. Much like DTK I'm very curious to see what rents will be like here. We need some good data on owner occupants vs shadow market renters.

[danbrotherston]

  
Need?  Probably more of a practical want for families with 1+ kids, family members/visitors from out of town, etc.  Kind of like having more than one bathroom - comes in handy sometimes.

Yes, handy sometimes. But how many families would pay another $100K (or whatever) for that rarely-used space?

Our building, like most others, has one 1BR and 2BR units. And yet we do have families with kids living here. Even ones with multiple kids.

For families with multiple kids, I see the desire for a third bedroom. (Yes, I shared a bedroom with my brother until I was 15, but it's not the same world today.) But many families have only one child, and my point was that not all of those need a three-bedroom unit.

The answer is most. In fact for 100k it would be a bargain. You'll note most families buy a house with more space than they strictly need.

[tomh009]

Is it really "too high for KW" if 90% of the buyers are from the gta, etc. Much like DTK I'm very curious to see what rents will be like here. We need some good data on owner occupants vs shadow market renters.

My personal prediction is that some of these recent condos will end up being not-very-good investments as we'll also have substantial new rental stock coming onto the market at roughly the same time (Drewlo, Market Flats, Arrow 2, 262 Queen, Scott & Weber x2 and possibly Victoria & Margaret). It will be interesting to see where the apartment rental rates settle, and whether the increase in supply will be enough to let some air out of the rental rates.

[Momo26]

Well, from real estate folks, all I've heard is rental vacancies are extremely low if not negligible and we run very little risk of over saturating market with a condo/apartment surplus. Don't forget sales and to a degree rent, is also correlated with prices of houses/townhouses. Is KW at the point where people are priced out of the houses with yards forcing otherwise folks uninterested in condo life, into condo life? That I'm not sure.

[MidTowner]

Having crunched the numbers on a few in the past, I think they're poor investments from the get-go with any honest estimates of vacancy and maintenance. I've seen units being sold for prices whereby the owners would essentially be subsidizing their tenants' housing.

You're right that some of the new (purpose-built, professionally managed) rental stock coming online could lead to softening of rents, which would make the situation even worse for a lot of these purchasers.

[ac3r]

Here are a few publicly available renders sent out as press release for the first phase:

I've had the opportunity to see a few more by the company that has rendered them, and the buildings look great. I'm hoping they release more to the public, as they're beautifully designed...minimal but inviting.

[tomh009]

Well, from real estate folks, all I've heard is rental vacancies are extremely low if not negligible and we run very little risk of over saturating market with a condo/apartment surplus. Don't forget sales and to a degree rent, is also correlated with prices of houses/townhouses. Is KW at the point where people are priced out of the houses with yards forcing otherwise folks uninterested in condo life, into condo life? That I'm not sure.

Would those real estate folks be agents, by any chance? With an interest in selling real estate?

House prices in KW have not gone up nearly as quickly as the condo prices.

[tomh009]

Having crunched the numbers on a few in the past, I think they're poor investments from the get-go with any honest estimates of vacancy and maintenance. I've seen units being sold for prices whereby the owners would essentially be subsidizing their tenants' housing.

Indeed. At the moment the best-case scenario is pretty close to a break-even on operating expenses vs rental income, and you are completely dependent on property appreciation for your investment. In the meantime, you need to find tenants and manage your property (or pay someone else to do it).

I'd rather invest my money in REIT. Or Canadian bank stocks, for that matter.

[Momo26]

What's REIT?

Many Toronto projects don't cash flow positive but the appreciation more than makes up for it most times.

When looking at alternatives, even freehold towns for example, there seems to be none less than 450k - 500k for a 3+ bdrm one. And rent in KW for it what, 2k at best, 2200 if lucky?

The prices of homes are just going up so quick.

[creative]

Real Estate Investment Trust
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_est...ment_trust