The COVID-19 pandemic

[danbrotherston]

We have Mobility Rights within our charter that grant us free mobility throughout the country, and I don't think any province can supersede that federal right we posses...but I'm not well versed in these sort of laws. Of course they can close borders as some provinces did, but that's different than forbidding anyone from not flying/entering lest they have been vaccinated.

Right, requiring vaccination is much less restrictive than closing the border. It would be insane if provinces could close the border but couldn’t require vaccination. Mobility rights don’t (or at least shouldn’t) mean we can go wherever we want whenever we want without having to follow any rules at all.

At this point it’s not even really a restriction at all — it’s just something you have to do. Nobody (well, almost nobody, and we wouldn’t listen) would complain about having to have a driver’s license to drive across a provincial border.

To be fair, I do not need a drivers license to cross a provincial border. I only need it to DRIVE across. Plenty of folks walk or bike across the border, I've done so, and of course, thousands more transit across the border....I've done that many times.

I don't think that crossing provincial borders is a more fundamental right than any others, I'd like to see us require vaccines for more than just border crossings.

[taylortbb]

Domestically, I don't know how it works. I don't know if a province something like require vaccinations. We have Mobility Rights within our charter that grant us free mobility throughout the country, and I don't think any province can supersede that federal right we posses...but I'm not well versed in these sort of laws. Of course they can close borders as some provinces did, but that's different than forbidding anyone from not flying/entering lest they have been vaccinated.

Every right in the charter is subject to the reasonable limits clause

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

So it's fundamentally up to the courts to determine what reasonable is when it comes to restrictions on things like inter-provincial travel or vaccinations. The test for the clause is the Oakes Test

1. There must be a pressing and substantial objective
   
2. The means must be proportional
   
   1. The means must be rationally connected to the objective
      
   2. There must be minimal impairment of rights
      
   3. There must be proportionality between the infringement and objective
      

There's a good explanation of what all the parts mean on Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_1_...d_Freedoms .

I think any court will find that reasonable pandemic management measures pass this test, as long as Covid remains a significant threat to our health. You probably couldn't require vaccinations to live in Canada, but you could require them to eat at a restaurant. Provincial border crossing would be similar, if there's a province that has the pandemic under control they could require travellers from provinces with high case counts to either be vaccinated or self-isolate on entry. The infringement would be minimal (there's the self-isolation alternative), and the issue would be obvious (travel from a high case count to a low case count area).

[ac3r]

[tomh009]

And this is at a point in time when the UK is the only country in Europe where the case numbers are shooting up again. 115K in the past seven days, up from 68K.

[ijmorlan]

… people are worried about it becoming something like a caste system where if you don't have one, your rights are limited …

This is an invalid concern which I reject entirely. If dalits could become brahmins by submitting to a 5 minute medical procedure then there might be something to discuss, but as it is there isn’t even a colourable argument for this analogy.

[ac3r]

… people are worried about it becoming something like a caste system where if you don't have one, your rights are limited …

This is an invalid concern which I reject entirely. If dalits could become brahmins by submitting to a 5 minute medical procedure then there might be something to discuss, but as it is there isn’t even a colourable argument for this analogy.

Well, don't take that analogy so seriously, it was just the first thing that popped into my mind while drinking a beer and shitposting.

That said, that is a worry you hear in the discourse amongst those who are hesitant or against this vaccine or at least against the idea of having to carry proof of it. They don't want people to be separated into criteria like "you're vaccinated so you can do this and this" and "you're not vaccinated, you're not allowed in this store nor; I am no longer your friend". It's a tricky thing to manage in a society like ours where we place strong emphasis on individual freedoms. I believe certain things should make it mandatory, like working in health care or education (even flying I would support), but it's tricky to mandate it for normal, everyday things.

Hopefully I don't sound anti-vaccine, I'm definitely not and I have all mine, including both shots of Pfizer now. But freedom to choose (to not get vaccinated) is a thing we have here, so mandating mandatory vaccines for certain things is going to cause a lot of anger amongst certain people. How we ease our society to return to our normal lives - with this virus being endemic for the foreseeable future - is going to be challenging. We need good education and messaging to those hesitant to get them to take it, most of all.

[danbrotherston]

This is an invalid concern which I reject entirely. If dalits could become brahmins by submitting to a 5 minute medical procedure then there might be something to discuss, but as it is there isn’t even a colourable argument for this analogy.

Well, don't take that analogy so seriously, it was just the first thing that popped into my mind while drinking a beer and shitposting.

That said, that is a worry you hear in the discourse amongst those who are hesitant or against this vaccine or at least against the idea of having to carry proof of it. They don't want people to be separated into criteria like "you're vaccinated so you can do this and this" and "you're not vaccinated, you're not allowed in this store nor; I am no longer your friend". It's a tricky thing to manage in a society like ours where we place strong emphasis on individual freedoms. I believe certain things should make it mandatory, like working in health care or education (even flying I would support), but it's tricky to mandate it for normal, everyday things.

Hopefully I don't sound anti-vaccine, I'm definitely not and I have all mine, including both shots of Pfizer now. But freedom to choose (to not get vaccinated) is a thing we have here, so mandating mandatory vaccines for certain things is going to cause a lot of anger amongst certain people. How we ease our society to return to our normal lives - with this virus being endemic for the foreseeable future - is going to be challenging. We need good education and messaging to those hesitant to get them to take it, most of all.

I mean, this is a strange argument, or at least one people make without any perspective.

If I chose not to wear a shirt, which is entirely legal for women and men, it would absolutely impact whether I am allowed in stores, who would be my friend, what jobs I could get (also, given our climate, my health as well ironically).

So I would normally think that they're just afraid of change, but in this case, there really isn't a change, we also already require vaccinations for things, this is just one more. There was never this freakout when chicken pox vaccine became a thing that was necessary for school.

I'm not really sure what it is. I'm sure some sociologists can tell us what it is, but I'm sure it's in some way related to the toxic ball of neuroses that is our society right now.

[jeffster]

Current 7-day Covid-19 cases per 100k

• Grey Bruce Health Unit 92.4
• Porcupine Health Unit 91.1
• Region of Waterloo Public Health and Emergency Services 65.0
• North Bay Parry Sound District Health Unit 31.1
• Lambton Public Health 23.7
• City of Hamilton Public Health Services 17.9
• Wellington-Dufferin-Guelph Public Health 14.7
• Niagara Region Public Health 13.5
• Toronto Public Health 11.6
• Windsor-Essex County Health Unit 11.1

• TOTAL ONTARIO 12.6

My only take on this is that the Region of Waterloo is wrong for extending the lockdown (the only region in all of North America, as far as I know). I think a lot of people are going to remember this, demand answers, changes, and most likely the next local election we’re going to see a lot of change. There is really no scientific evidence that we should carry on with our current lockdown measures. I am hoping that when this is over, that the leadership in our PHU is shuffled. Not suggesting that some up there, like Dr. Wang, enjoy the limelight and control over the population, but I also wouldn’t suggest that they don’t enjoy the limelight and control. Ditto applies to Redman.

[jeffster]

I wanted to point out to something Tom posted a couple days ago:


Ontario 14 days ago:

Total vaccinated: 9,410,285 (63.93%)
Fully vaccinated: 1,796,782 (12.21%

Waterloo Region 14 days ago:

Total vaccinated: 392,965 (56.47%)
Fully vaccinated: 144,135 (17.14%)

So while the Region of Waterloo was more than 10% the province in total vaccinations, 63.93% vs 56.47%, what is surprising is that the region was doing much better than the province for second doses, 12.21% vs 17.14% (40% more). So while our leadership had been complaining that our poor case count was due to lack of vaccine, it seems that whatever extra vaccine we did get used to jab those that already have been jab.

I have said it once, and I’ll say it again: we suck. The leadership from our PHU and our vaccine task force is anything but world class. Just on the news yesterday they were talking how the region is asking people to be patient with their shitty registration system, and, at the same time, putting the onus on the public for getting their shots, thus shifting blame from the region to the general public.

Let me enlighten the region: 1) Not everyone has internet, nor an unlimited cell phone plan. 2) Not everyone has the time to be in front of a computer, waiting for their turn to set up an appointment. 3) Not everyone can travel a long distance to go and get their jab at one of these sites.

We need for vaccination centres. I’ve been saying this for at least a month now. And why The Boardwalk continues to have the most hours and most staff is beyond me, as this site is far from where concentration of the cases have been.

Now, I fully expect some downvotes here, and I don’t give a rats ass. Our region is far from world class at this point and our current circumstance compared to the rest of the country is proof thereof. What I dislike when I come here to read the replies are many of you continually defending the region, rather then agree that yes, we have done a crappy job. Yes, our PHU doctor is out of her mind. Yes, the leadership for this task force is way over their heads. I would have hoped that by now, flyers would have been sent out. That perhaps a vaccine centre would have been set up at some of our community centres in Kitchener (Victoria Hills, Chandler, Kingdale, Stanley Park and Centreville-Chicopee).

We shouldn’t have lost another summer. And we shouldn’t have been the only region to.

[Rainrider22]

I wanted to point out to something Tom posted a couple days ago:


Ontario 14 days ago:

Total vaccinated: 9,410,285 (63.93%)
Fully vaccinated: 1,796,782 (<b>12.21%</b>)

Waterloo Region 14 days ago:

Total vaccinated: 392,965 (56.47%)
Fully vaccinated: 144,135 (<b>17.14%</b>)

So while the Region of Waterloo was more than 10% the province in total vaccinations, 63.93% vs 56.47%, what is surprising is that the region was doing much better than the province for second doses, 12.21% vs 17.14% (40% more). So while our leadership had been complaining that our poor case count was due to lack of vaccine, it seems that whatever extra vaccine we did get used to jab those that already have been jab.

I have said it once, and I’ll say it again: we suck. The leadership from our PHU and our vaccine task force is anything but world class. Just on the news yesterday they were talking how the region is asking people to be patient with their shitty registration system, and, at the same time, putting the onus on the public for getting their shots, thus shifting blame from the region to the general public.

Let me enlighten the region: 1) Not everyone has internet, nor an unlimited cell phone plan. 2) Not everyone has the time to be in front of a computer, waiting for their turn to set up an appointment. 3) Not everyone can travel a long distance to go and get their jab at one of these sites.

We need for vaccination centres. I’ve been saying this for at least a month now. And why The Boardwalk continues to have the most hours and most staff is beyond me, as this site is far from where concentration of the cases have been.

Now, I fully expect some downvotes here, and I don’t give a rats ass. Our region is far from world class at this point and our current circumstance compared to the rest of the country is proof thereof. What I dislike when I come here to read the replies are many of you continually defending the region, rather then agree that yes, we have done a crappy job. Yes, our PHU doctor is out of her mind. Yes, the leadership for this task force is way over their heads. I would have hoped that by now, flyers would have been sent out. That perhaps a vaccine centre would have been set up at some of our community centres in Kitchener (Victoria Hills, Chandler, Kingdale, Stanley Park and Centreville-Chicopee).

We shouldn’t have lost another summer. And we shouldn’t have been the only region to.

I agree with you.  Their communications and registration was terrible.  Why did they opt out of the provincial booking system that seems to have worked properly for everyone else ?  I tried three times to book and never got a response.  I got both my shots in Peel Way better to work with, cant even compare.  Holding us back in phase 1 is ridiculous. Yes we had the highest numbers in the province however, they were still way lower than other regions numbers when they were at a high.  The only thing that has been accomplished is causing further harm and stress to small businesses..

[jeffster]

The region has 3 walk-in clinics again. And surprise, 2 are in Waterloo (Boardwalk and Regina St) and one a the Pharmacy School in Kitchener. Again, not accessible for 95% of the at risk population. Talk about stubborn. As if doing things right would be equal to admitting fault.

Sorry, our PHU is complete garbage. Bottom of the barrel compared to the rest of Canada and the US.

Oddly, I think anyone that signed up (pre-reg) before the new system won’t be getting confirmation. How many more in this region are waiting for the region to get back to them, thinking they’re in line when the region in fact kicked them back out. And I say this knowing that the region doesn’t have my health card number, yet I haven’t heard back from them for my shots. I am NOT the only one. What a piece of crap the region set up. The entire staff needs to be let go and put some damned professionals in, and accept help from the province.

[tomh009]

A couple days ago, in London England, there were massive protests with thousands upon thousands of people protesting the lockdown, vaccinations (not that they're against taking them, but people are worried about it becoming something like a caste system where if you don't have one, your rights are limited), nightclub owners and DJs, business owners, climate change activists etc. Eventually these restrictions hit a boiling point and people erupt. Humans, naturally, want their freedom.

Just for some perspective, the climate strike protest last fall had over 100,000 protesters in Central London. Thousands (none of the major media reported tens of thousands) is not massive on the London scale.

[tomh009]

Sorry, our PHU is complete garbage. Bottom of the barrel compared to the rest of Canada and the US.

Sigh. I think you have trashed them more than a hundred times now, with no evidence as to what specific things they have done wrong.

At least for me, when I see the same ragging again, it means I won't bother reading the rest of the post, either.

[tomh009]

WEDNESDAY 2021-06-30

Waterloo Region reported 56 new cases for today (11.6% of the active cases) and four more for yesterday for 42; 373 new cases for the week (-5 from yesterday, -41 from last week), averaging 10.8% of active cases. 434 active cases, -91 in the last seven days.

Next testing report on Friday (maybe).

9,712 doses of vaccine administered, with a seven-day average at 9,360 (previous week was 7,789). 63.27% of total regional population vaccinated (+0.15% from yesterday, +2.66% from 7 days ago), 25.93% fully vaccinated (+1.45% from yesterday, +9.48% from 7 days ago).

Ontario reported 184 new cases today with a seven-day average of 255 (-11). 322 recoveries and 14 deaths translated to a decrease of 152 active cases and a new total of 2,257. -775 active cases for the week and 75 deaths (11 per day). 27,258 tests with a positivity rate of 0.68%. The positivity rate is averaging 1.13% for the past seven days, compared to 1.37% for the preceding seven. 209 patients in ICU (-4 today, -42 for the week).

New case variants reported today (these are substantially delayed so they do not match the new case numbers):

• Alpha (B.1.1.7): 63
  
• Beta (B.1.351): 50
  
• Delta (B.1.617): 205
  
• Gamma (P.1): 105
  

The past week's variant test results are 42% Delta and 36% Alpha.

268,397 doses of vaccine administered, with a seven-day average at 234,930 (previous week was 194,888). 67.47% of total provincial population vaccinated (+0.16% from yesterday, +1.22% from 7 days ago), 32.66% fully vaccinated (+1.66% from yesterday, +9.95% from 7 days ago).

• 46 cases in Waterloo: 7.4 per 100K (based on provincial reporting)
  
• 13 cases in Middlesex-London: 3.2 per 100K
  
• 3 cases in Huron Perth: 3.1 per 100K
  
• 17 cases in Hamilton: 2.9 per 100K
  
• 6 cases in Niagara: 1.3 per 100K
  
• 16 cases in Peel: 1.2 per 100K
  
• 1 cases in Northwestern: 1.1 per 100K
  
• 6 cases in Simcoe-Muskoka: 1.1 per 100K
  
• 11 cases in Ottawa: 1.1 per 100K
  

[neonjoe]

I wanted to point out to something Tom posted a couple days ago:


Ontario 14 days ago:

Total vaccinated: 9,410,285 (63.93%)
Fully vaccinated: 1,796,782 (12.21%

Waterloo Region 14 days ago:

Total vaccinated: 392,965 (56.47%)
Fully vaccinated: 144,135 (17.14%)

If second vaccinations are higher than average it suggests that either the region is having issue prioritizing first doses over second doses, its too hard to get a first dose or there is a subset of the population that is hesitant at a proportion greater than the provincial average. Many US states are in the latter... For example Ohio, where much of my family is from,  has a 47.65% rate of vaccination started compared to their population and a 44.35% vaccination completion rate. They are having trouble getting anyone to get their first dose now that all the non Trumpians have had their shot.