Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[jamincan]

I'm not sure it's wise to have a stage directly adjacent to housing.

[nms]

The co-founder of the K-W O-:-s-e Kenhionhata:tie Land Back Camp has a proposal for the terminal.  It's currently getting lots of support with a Change.org petition.  As of this evening, the petition crossed 2500 signatures.

Record article (October 4, 2021) : Make old bus terminal an Indigenous hub, activists urge Waterloo Region
CTV story (October 5, 2021): Residents pushing for new Indigenous hub in Waterloo

The CTV story includes a couple conceptual drawings

PS there are no hyphens in O-:-s-e, but I had to put them in to avoid it inserting an emoticon.

[westwardloo]

I don't hate the idea of finding a place to put an indigenous hub somewhere in the region. Preferable somewhere downtown that can incorporate a museum that tells indigenous stories/ history. I am not 100% sure this is the land for that. It is probably one of the more valuable pieces of land owned by the region. They could sell it to fund the indigenous cultural hub. Maybe once the new HQ is built they could use the existing police headquarters property near the library? That is a decent sized lot which I assume the region owns and would not be looking to build residential tower on.

[Rainrider22]

I don't hate the idea of finding a place to put an indigenous hub somewhere in the region. Preferable somewhere downtown that can incorporate a museum that tells indigenous stories/ history. I am not 100% sure this is the land for that. It is probably one of the more valuable pieces of land owned by the region. They could sell it to fund the indigenous cultural hub. Maybe once the new HQ is built they could use the existing police headquarters property near the library? That is a decent sized lot which I assume the region owns and would not be looking to build residential tower on.

This is a great idea and makes a lot of sense putting it in the Civic district !!

[danbrotherston]

I don't hate the idea of finding a place to put an indigenous hub somewhere in the region. Preferable somewhere downtown that can incorporate a museum that tells indigenous stories/ history. I am not 100% sure this is the land for that. It is probably one of the more valuable pieces of land owned by the region. They could sell it to fund the indigenous cultural hub. Maybe once the new HQ is built they could use the existing police headquarters property near the library? That is a decent sized lot which I assume the region owns and would not be looking to build residential tower on.

I mean, density wise, I think there needs to be more there, but I don't see any reason that it couldn't be included in the development. Location wise, a central prominent location like that isn't a bad thing.

My current objection to the development in that area is lack of ambition. As usual, we are looking at a development in isolation, rather than trying to build a place. Most notably, there's large surface parking lots on three different sides of this development, and kitty corner a fourth. Let's imagine what this area could look like without mostly being surface parking.

[Bytor]

I don't hate the idea of finding a place to put an indigenous hub somewhere in the region. Preferable somewhere downtown that can incorporate a museum that tells indigenous stories/ history. I am not 100% sure this is the land for that. It is probably one of the more valuable pieces of land owned by the region. They could sell it to fund the indigenous cultural hub. Maybe once the new HQ is built they could use the existing police headquarters property near the library? That is a decent sized lot which I assume the region owns and would not be looking to build residential tower on.

The indigenous hub on the police property, the very symbol of of the force used by generations of Canadian governments to oppress native peoples?

Yeah, totally sensible idea.

[taylortbb]

The indigenous hub on the police property, the very symbol of of the force used by generations of Canadian governments to oppress native peoples?

Yeah, totally sensible idea.

I think the proposal is to demolish the old police HQ, and give the land over to the indigenous communities. I think the symbolism there doesn't seem terrible, reclaiming the land from the police.

Your response reads like the suggestion was to share the property with the police.

[tomh009]

The indigenous hub on the police property, the very symbol of of the force used by generations of Canadian governments to oppress native peoples?

Yeah, totally sensible idea.

I think the proposal is to demolish the old police HQ, and give the land over to the indigenous communities. I think the symbolism there doesn't seem terrible, reclaiming the land from the police.

Your response reads like the suggestion was to share the property with the police.

Exactly.

[westwardloo]

I don't hate the idea of finding a place to put an indigenous hub somewhere in the region. Preferable somewhere downtown that can incorporate a museum that tells indigenous stories/ history. I am not 100% sure this is the land for that. It is probably one of the more valuable pieces of land owned by the region. They could sell it to fund the indigenous cultural hub. Maybe once the new HQ is built they could use the existing police headquarters property near the library? That is a decent sized lot which I assume the region owns and would not be looking to build residential tower on.

The indigenous hub on the police property, the very symbol of of the force used by generations of Canadian governments to oppress native peoples?

Yeah, totally sensible idea.

I am not sure why this would be seen as a negative to indigenous community? Both sites are regional owned. The police are moving from the site beside the regional building, to a new HQ beside the Centre in the Square. What better use for the land then to give it to the community and secure funding for a cultural centre/ museum in the heart of the civic centre. I doubt the land back movement/ Indigenous community would turn their nose up at the land because police use to use the site. 

Personally I think an indigenous centre needs to be a stand alone building. It can't be incorporated into a mixed-use development. This type of building needs to be a unique structure, with high level of architectural detail. The type of building that draws you in. If you stick it in the podium of a k-w designed tower i don't think it will won't have the same community benefit.

[jordan2423]

The co-founder of the K-W O-:-s-e Kenhionhata:tie Land Back Camp has a proposal for the terminal.  It's currently getting lots of support with a Change.org petition.  As of this evening, the petition crossed 2500 signatures.

Record article (October 4, 2021) : Make old bus terminal an Indigenous hub, activists urge Waterloo Region
CTV story (October 5, 2021): Residents pushing for new Indigenous hub in Waterloo

The CTV story includes a couple conceptual drawings

PS there are no hyphens in O-:-s-e, but I had to put them in to avoid it inserting an emoticon.

Why don't they move the Kitchener auditorium at the charles street terminal. That way we can have entertainment, sporting events and also an indigenous hub that can be used. I think this would be a greater idea. If we want the downtown hustle and bustle, i think it's time we have something to look forward to like a sporting/concert/entertainment venue downtown...

[tomh009]

Why don't they move the Kitchener auditorium at the charles street terminal. That way we can have entertainment, sporting events and also an indigenous hub that can be used. I think this would be a greater idea. If we want the downtown hustle and bustle, i think it's time we have something to look forward to like a sporting/concert/entertainment venue downtown...

It's really not big enough. And the Aud is a short LRT ride away as it is.

As another poster said, it would make the most sense for this to be a standalone facility. But, apart from the real estate (maybe $10M worth if downtown?), someone will need to pay for the development (multiple $10M) and the annual operations.

[nms]

One benefit of the Indigenous hub at the Charles St location would be that programming could easily be spread into the Victoria Park green space as necessary.

[ac3r]

Am Indigenous centre sounds great, but I'm not sure where they'd get the funding for that. As it stands, a couple developers have been eyeing this location already - including one associated with the architecture firm I am currently with.

We'll have to see what happens to this place. It's a prime piece of real estate and you know what that generally entails in the end.

Also, why do I often see the suggestion they build an auditorium here? It's not big enough for that...it's a tiny piece of property. Nevermind the question of where you'd put parking for attendees and teams. Whenever it comes time for a new stadium, I would think they'd just use the existing Aud space. IIRC the building is supposedly in poor condition anyway, so they'll need to get something new eventually. But I don't think we have enough local sports to warrant that and any major events tend to take place in Toronto anyway. Once we get all day GO service, it'll make going to games in Toronto a lot easier and nullify any need for a major stadium in Waterloo Region.

[jeffster]

Am Indigenous centre sounds great, but I'm not sure where they'd get the funding for that. As it stands, a couple developers have been eyeing this location already - including one associated with the architecture firm I am currently with.

We'll have to see what happens to this place. It's a prime piece of real estate and you know what that generally entails in the end.

Also, why do I often see the suggestion they build an auditorium here? It's not big enough for that...it's a tiny piece of property. Nevermind the question of where you'd put parking for attendees and teams. Whenever it comes time for a new stadium, I would think they'd just use the existing Aud space. IIRC the building is supposedly in poor condition anyway, so they'll need to get something new eventually. But I don't think we have enough local sports to warrant that and any major events tend to take place in Toronto anyway. Once we get all day GO service, it'll make going to games in Toronto a lot easier and nullify any need for a major stadium in Waterloo Region.

Right, the old transportation centre is way to small for a decent arena. Parking aside, not a lot of room to move in entertainment venues (53' truck-trailers).

That said, The Aud itself is not in poor condition. It's just old and doesn't have great amenities compared to new arena's, but it's still a solid build. Building a new arena in the old Centennial field is possible, as that is a huge chunk of land. But it'll be years away.

[danbrotherston]

Am Indigenous centre sounds great, but I'm not sure where they'd get the funding for that. As it stands, a couple developers have been eyeing this location already - including one associated with the architecture firm I am currently with.

We'll have to see what happens to this place. It's a prime piece of real estate and you know what that generally entails in the end.

Also, why do I often see the suggestion they build an auditorium here? It's not big enough for that...it's a tiny piece of property. Nevermind the question of where you'd put parking for attendees and teams. Whenever it comes time for a new stadium, I would think they'd just use the existing Aud space. IIRC the building is supposedly in poor condition anyway, so they'll need to get something new eventually. But I don't think we have enough local sports to warrant that and any major events tend to take place in Toronto anyway. Once we get all day GO service, it'll make going to games in Toronto a lot easier and nullify any need for a major stadium in Waterloo Region.

Right, the old transportation centre is way to small for a decent arena. Parking aside, not a lot of room to move in entertainment venues (53' truck-trailers).

That said, The Aud itself is not in poor condition. It's just old and doesn't have great amenities compared to new arena's, but it's still a solid build. Building a new arena in the old Centennial field is possible, as that is a huge chunk of land. But it'll be years away.

FWIW I agree that we should keep the old Aud, it doesn't seem necessary to move....our needs certainly have not exceeded that plot of land.

That being said, bringing in 53' tractor trailers is no problem. Remember, our regional engineers in their wisdom have decided that every single road, even the smallest cul-de-sac must accommodate the largest possible vehicles. As a result, the newly constructed Charles St. has no problem accommodating any road legal vehicle in Ontario.