The COVID-19 pandemic

[plam]

Strange that some ask for a religious exemption while serving war type operations.

Hey, for some of us violence is a sacrament! Don’t tread on me!

Pretty off topic, but I have a friend in the NZ Army who signed up for the humanitarian mission. I mean, what does the NZ Army really do?

[ac3r]

They had a few thousand soldiers in Afghanistan for 20 years as part of our Western lust to subjugate the world to our imperialist war machine. I think they're also fairly active in the Philippine and East China Sea as part of our attempts to keep the People's Republic of China submissive to us.

[tomh009]

They had a few thousand soldiers in Afghanistan for 20 years as part of our Western lust to subjugate the world to our imperialist war machine. I think they're also fairly active in the Philippine and East China Sea as part of our attempts to keep the People's Republic of China submissive to us.

If we want to discuss world politics, let's please create a thread in the appropriate forum.

[jeffster]

Current 7-day Covid-19 cases per 100k

• Eastern Ontario Health Unit 731.6
• Chatham-Kent Public Health 715.8
• Lambton Public Health 710.1

• Region of Waterloo Public Health and Emergency Services 688.4

• Halton Region Public Health 685.8
• City of Hamilton Public Health Services 682.6
• Windsor-Essex County Health Unit 679.6
• Peel Public Health 673.5
• Durham Region Health Department 648.8
• York Region Public Health 630.4
• Middlesex-London Health Unit 618.7
• Niagara Region Public Health 583.5
• Brant County Health Unit 548.3
• Toronto Public Health 530.5
• Simcoe Muskoka District Health Unit 514.2
• Haldimand-Norfolk Health Unit 497.9
• Southwestern Public Health 466.7
• Ottawa Public Health 457.9
• Northwestern Health Unit 439.1
• Public Health Sudbury & Districts 428.6
• Porcupine Health Unit 419.5
• Wellington-Dufferin-Guelph Public Health 412.9
• Peterborough Public Health 409.5
• Hastings Prince Edward Public Health 399.4
• Grey Bruce Health Unit 389.7
• Thunder Bay District Health Unit 386.8
• Renfrew County and District Health Unit 357.2
• Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit 348.3
• Huron Perth Public Health 343.5
• Algoma Public Health 327.7
• Kingston, Frontenac and Lennox & Addington Public Health 326.3
• North Bay Parry Sound District Health Unit 263.6
• Leeds, Grenville & Lanark District Health Unit 251.8
• Timiskaming Health Unit 244.7

• TOTAL ONTARIO 559.7

This was the expected drop as testing was "streamlined".

[danbrotherston]

So sounds like schools are opening, but my cynical and unfortunately too often proved right opinion is that they have leaked this to test public response, because the people running our government are too incompetent to even understand public perception.

In other news, Peel Memorial's ER is closed....

This is going to be a rough couple of months...best to avoid needing a hospital.

[danbrotherston]

Well, big news:

https://twitter.com/mcquillanator/status...7361634304

Quebec will apparently charge unvaxxed people more for healthcare.

The thread is full of ignorant tantrums, which comes as no surprise.

[jeffster]

Well, big news:

https://twitter.com/mcquillanator/status...7361634304

Quebec will apparently charge unvaxxed people more for healthcare.

The thread is full of ignorant tantrums, which comes as no surprise.

It is big news. Whether there would be legal is different story. Though Quebec is not constitutionally part of Canada, so most likely they can do what they want. But I do think it creates a dangerous precedent — we’d be that much closer to creating a healthcare system that might surcharge obese people, alcoholics, smokers, etc., that clog up the system, not to mention those involved in higher risk activities.

And again, this is going to effect the poor more than the rich, it will effect immigrants, it will effect indigenous. Though mind you, Quebec has never cared about immigrants nor indigenous.

[taylortbb]

But I do think it creates a dangerous precedent — we’d be that much closer to creating a healthcare system that might surcharge obese people, alcoholics, smokers, etc., that clog up the system

Don't we already do that? I thought that was one of the main justifications for the sin taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, etc.

And again, this is going to effect the poor more than the rich

They seem to be planning to administer it through the income tax system, which would make it pretty easy to scale based on income.

[danbrotherston]

But I do think it creates a dangerous precedent — we’d be that much closer to creating a healthcare system that might surcharge obese people, alcoholics, smokers, etc., that clog up the system

Don't we already do that? I thought that was one of the main justifications for the sin taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, etc.

And again, this is going to effect the poor more than the rich

They seem to be planning to administer it through the income tax system, which would make it pretty easy to scale based on income.

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of it that way, but we absolutely do charge those who partake in certain self destructive behaviour more for the privilege. Same for reckless driving, they pay higher insurance premiums.

That being said, this is, to be fair, a step towards being more direct. But again, it's pretty clearly different. Not getting vaccinated is not an addiction, it's not particularly difficult, even me, a person terrified of needles managed to get 3 so far (for COVID alone).



Was just going to say this, tying it to income tax seems a clearly easy choice. Given how much of our healthcare isn't income, adjusted this could easily be better than average.

[plam]

It is big news. Whether there would be legal is different story. Though Quebec is not constitutionally part of Canada, so most likely they can do what they want. But I do think it creates a dangerous precedent — we’d be that much closer to creating a healthcare system that might surcharge obese people, alcoholics, smokers, etc., that clog up the system, not to mention those involved in higher risk activities.

And again, this is going to effect the poor more than the rich, it will effect immigrants, it will effect indigenous. Though mind you, Quebec has never cared about immigrants nor indigenous.

Not true re: Quebec. That was litigated and the fact that Quebec didn't sign the constitution doesn't mean that it's not binding on Quebec. It is true that some things are harder to enforce in Quebec than in other places, although it's not like Ford hasn't used the notwithstanding clause either.

Look, my parents immigrated to Quebec in the 70s and said it was a lot better than France. It is pretty anti-Muslim right now though.

I will also say that the James Bay accords are recognized as some of the best treaties with indigenous people in Canada right now. Of course they're not perfect, but they're a lot better than the older treaties.

As for the COVID thing. I think that it's on the wrong timeframe to matter, but I also think that the vast, vast majority of Canadians would think that the holdouts should get vaccinated. Compared to the Ontario tax incentive to stay in hotels, this seems like a better idea right now.

[plam]

It is big news. Whether there would be legal is different story. Though Quebec is not constitutionally part of Canada, so most likely they can do what they want. But I do think it creates a dangerous precedent — we’d be that much closer to creating a healthcare system that might surcharge obese people, alcoholics, smokers, etc., that clog up the system, not to mention those involved in higher risk activities.

And again, this is going to effect the poor more than the rich, it will effect immigrants, it will effect indigenous. Though mind you, Quebec has never cared about immigrants nor indigenous.

Not true re: Quebec. That was litigated and the fact that Quebec didn't sign the constitution doesn't mean that it's not binding on Quebec. It is true that some things are harder to enforce in Quebec than in other places, although it's not like Ford hasn't used the notwithstanding clause either.

Look, my parents immigrated to Quebec in the 70s and said it was a lot better than France. It is pretty anti-Muslim right now though.

I will also say that the James Bay accords are recognized as some of the best treaties with indigenous people in Canada right now. Of course they're not perfect, but they're a lot better than the older treaties.

As for the COVID thing. I think that it's on the wrong timeframe to matter, but I also think that the vast, vast majority of Canadians would think that the holdouts should get vaccinated. Compared to the Ontario tax incentive to stay in hotels, this seems like a better idea right now.

[panamaniac]

No province signed the Constitution.

[jeffster]

But I do think it creates a dangerous precedent — we’d be that much closer to creating a healthcare system that might surcharge obese people, alcoholics, smokers, etc., that clog up the system

Don't we already do that? I thought that was one of the main justifications for the sin taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, etc.

And again, this is going to effect the poor more than the rich

They seem to be planning to administer it through the income tax system, which would make it pretty easy to scale based on income.

So called SIN tax I don't think comes close to covering the costs if one winds up in the hospital with lung cancer or needing a new liver. As for poor eating habits, there is no SIN tax on junk foods or pop, or over consumption. Perhaps that will change, but for now, it's a free quadruple bypass that hopefully you'd never need.

As for administering it through income tax, not sure how that would work if someone has zero income, especially true of someone living on the reserve as they pay no income tax, federally or provincially.

Though I have no idea how their healthcare coverage is, as they have a different system than provincial healthcare (if living on reserve land).

[jeffster]

Current 7-day Covid-19 cases per 100k

• Eastern Ontario Health Unit 729.2
• Lambton Public Health 694.8
• City of Hamilton Public Health Services 678.5

• Region of Waterloo Public Health and Emergency Services 677.1

• Halton Region Public Health 670.8
• Chatham-Kent Public Health 664.1
• Peel Public Health 652.1
• Windsor-Essex County Health Unit 625.0
• Durham Region Health Department 617.8
• York Region Public Health 612.8
• Middlesex-London Health Unit 577.3
• Niagara Region Public Health 564.5
• Toronto Public Health 503.9
• Brant County Health Unit 500.0
• Simcoe Muskoka District Health Unit 485.0
• Haldimand-Norfolk Health Unit 476.9
• Northwestern Health Unit 455.1
• Ottawa Public Health 454.8
• Porcupine Health Unit 425.5
• Public Health Sudbury & Districts 420.1
• Southwestern Public Health 408.0
• Thunder Bay District Health Unit 398.8
• Wellington-Dufferin-Guelph Public Health 382.8
• Hastings Prince Edward Public Health 375.7
• Peterborough Public Health 375.1
• Algoma Public Health 342.6
• Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit 330.3
• Grey Bruce Health Unit 329.6
• Kingston, Frontenac and Lennox & Addington Public Health 307.9
• Huron Perth Public Health 275.5
• Renfrew County and District Health Unit 273.4
• North Bay Parry Sound District Health Unit 257.4
• Timiskaming Health Unit 257.0
• Leeds, Grenville & Lanark District Health Unit 221.2

• TOTAL ONTARIO 536.8

[ac3r]

A technical advisory group established by the World Health Organization said on Tuesday that current COVID-19 vaccines may need to be updated to ensure they are effective against new variants like Omicron: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc...022-01-11/