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(11-02-2017, 03:47 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: (11-02-2017, 01:22 PM)taylortbb Wrote: I'd say it is Bombardier's fault. It's not like the region delayed the vehicles because the region isn't ready for them (unlike say Metrolinx, which does appear to share in the fault). If the region could get fully functional complete vehicles delivered they would have taken them a year ago. The problem is Bombardier wanted to ship vehicles that still needed more work, and the region told Bombardier to get them done before shipping them, and that the region doesn't want to be storage space for incomplete vehicles. I'm pretty sure the original contract for vehicle delivery specified 14 complete vehicles last year, not 14 vehicles that still needed more work.
502 only needed Grandlinq's work to be able to test it. the only vehicle that needs Bombardier to work on it more is 501. They haven't shipped us any incomplete vehicles since 501. The work that region has asked Bombardier to do on the completed vehicles there is to make the modifications (that Bombardier been making to perfect the overall design and process) to the completed ones in addition to the ones being built. This is so that there is a unified approach to maintaining the vehicles rather than minor differences between the individual vehicles. None of this would even be needed if the Sheppard East LRT wasn't shelved by Rob Ford because the changes would have been made already during the production run of the vehicles for Sheppard East. We have now become the launch customer which means we get the lovely benefit (if you can call it that) of being the guinea pigs.
Given that 503/504 still need more work to make them the same as the later vehicles I'd consider that incomplete, until then they're basically beta units. Functional beta units, but still beta (and therefore incomplete). I certainly agree that if the TTC hadn't cancelled Transit City then they'd have been the beta customer, and we wouldn't be, but that doesn't excuse Bombardier's delay. Timelines for delivery are supposed to include the beta testing phase.
At my work if we tell a customer we're delivering their product by X date and we only have a beta on X date, we don't get to say we met our timeline, even if the beta does most of what the customer wants.
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(11-02-2017, 04:13 PM)taylortbb Wrote: (11-02-2017, 03:47 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: 502 only needed Grandlinq's work to be able to test it. the only vehicle that needs Bombardier to work on it more is 501. They haven't shipped us any incomplete vehicles since 501. The work that region has asked Bombardier to do on the completed vehicles there is to make the modifications (that Bombardier been making to perfect the overall design and process) to the completed ones in addition to the ones being built. This is so that there is a unified approach to maintaining the vehicles rather than minor differences between the individual vehicles. None of this would even be needed if the Sheppard East LRT wasn't shelved by Rob Ford because the changes would have been made already during the production run of the vehicles for Sheppard East. We have now become the launch customer which means we get the lovely benefit (if you can call it that) of being the guinea pigs.
Given that 503/504 still need more work to make them the same as the later vehicles I'd consider that incomplete, until then they're basically beta units. Functional beta units, but still beta (and therefore incomplete). I certainly agree that if the TTC hadn't cancelled Transit City then they'd have been the beta customer, and we wouldn't be, but that doesn't excuse Bombardier's delay. Timelines for delivery are supposed to include the beta testing phase.
At my work if we tell a customer we're delivering their product by X date and we only have a beta on X date, we don't get to say we met our timeline, even if the beta does most of what the customer wants.
You seem to fail to understand how the manufacturing process works for new products like these. These are complete real products. Not beta versions. Not incomplete versions. Fully assembled, fully functional vehicles. The only beta versions are Metrolinx's pilots. Metrolinx was supposed to be the beta customer long before even Shepard East was even supposed to be running. Rob Ford cancelled Shepard East, then Metrolinx took over the plan, then Metrolinx delayed the plan to beyond 2021, then Metrolinx refused to sign a single piece of paper related to their pilots for stupid reasons meaning our finished products ended up having to act like pilots even though they were never intended to. Our order wasn't supposed to be anywhere near the beta testing phase.
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(11-02-2017, 04:13 PM)taylortbb Wrote: (11-02-2017, 03:47 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: 502 only needed Grandlinq's work to be able to test it. the only vehicle that needs Bombardier to work on it more is 501. They haven't shipped us any incomplete vehicles since 501. The work that region has asked Bombardier to do on the completed vehicles there is to make the modifications (that Bombardier been making to perfect the overall design and process) to the completed ones in addition to the ones being built. This is so that there is a unified approach to maintaining the vehicles rather than minor differences between the individual vehicles. None of this would even be needed if the Sheppard East LRT wasn't shelved by Rob Ford because the changes would have been made already during the production run of the vehicles for Sheppard East. We have now become the launch customer which means we get the lovely benefit (if you can call it that) of being the guinea pigs.
Given that 503/504 still need more work to make them the same as the later vehicles I'd consider that incomplete, until then they're basically beta units. Functional beta units, but still beta (and therefore incomplete). I certainly agree that if the TTC hadn't cancelled Transit City then they'd have been the beta customer, and we wouldn't be, but that doesn't excuse Bombardier's delay. Timelines for delivery are supposed to include the beta testing phase.
At my work if we tell a customer we're delivering their product by X date and we only have a beta on X date, we don't get to say we met our timeline, even if the beta does most of what the customer wants.
Just because an item was delivered prior to an update doesn't mean it is incomplete, it simply means it is an earlier version. If Grandlinq knows that a so-called Flexity v1.1 is about to be released, it makes sense to ask the manufacturer to delay delivery so that Grandlinq receives the latest updates to the vehicle. Nevertheless, Flexity v1.0 is still a perfectly functional and complete vehicle.
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(11-02-2017, 12:30 PM)KevinL Wrote: A surprise during 'substantial completion' - the platform at Frederick is wrapped in tarps. Not sure what's going on within.
A number of other stations are similarly wrapped.
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I really hope they’re not wrapping them for the winter to protect them from the elements, but that looks exactly like what they’re doing.  That stack of wood on that truck is a dead giveaway.
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(11-02-2017, 07:24 PM)Canard Wrote: I really hope they’re not wrapping them for the winter to protect them from the elements, but that looks exactly like what they’re doing. That stack of wood on that truck is a dead giveaway.
Frederick station now unwrapped. A casual look did not reveal to me what was done during the wrapping though ...
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LOL! They wrapped it, and then unwrapped it in a day? That's hilarious.
Other stations have had their glass panels covered briefly to protect from overspray for re-painting in some areas. It was probably something like that.
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Region plans to test LRT but won't say when - CBC Kitchener
I wonder if the media are actually so stupid they don't realize it's their own damn fault.
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I got a closer look at Frederick station on my way home - could not detect any clear alterations.
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The title of that article is so silly.
We just get all 14 LRVs and launch service without any testing.
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Kevin - if they were doing touch-up paint work, then that is a good thing and completely unsurprising! 
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I passed the Queen and Victoria Park stations this morning. Neither was wrapped. Queen has the testing posters, Victoria Park doesn't.
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My second post on this topic ... but how can the region, the city and Grandlinq all find this level of workmanship acceptable?
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Tom, do you have a twitter account? If not, I’d be happy to tweet these out for you (with your permission and photo credit, of course).
That’s awful - akin to graffiti, really.
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Canard, please go ahead, credit not necessary.
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