ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[ookpik]

Different product.  I don't see why delays with the Flexity Outlook (TTC Streetcar) would have any impact on the Flexity Freedom (ION and Metrolinx LRT).

Are they not being made in the same factories and to the same quality control standards (or lack thereof)? Why would ours be any different from theirs in these respects?

[Markster]

I'm not seeing much new information in that Star article. It seems to mostly be just a rehash of what was reported in February:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toro...e23151260/

The TTC and Bombardier have been working on it for months already. The Star article frames it like there's been no progress at all since then.

[timio]

Are they not being made in the same factories and to the same quality control standards (or lack thereof)? Why would ours be any different from theirs in these respects?

Same company, but different product, different manufacturing details, and time to learn from their mistakes.  All these go together to make me hopeful things go better.

Besides, there's been no news about delivery timelines yet.  Wait until that gets published before rushing to judgement.  I would guess we're still a year away from having a place to test the LRV's, so there's still lots of time to get things accomplished.

[Canard]

Outlook and Freedom are both modular and many of the modular components are identical and/or stretched.  They're not that different, and they'll be built by all of the same "hands".  So they're a lot more alike than you're suggesting.  Let me know if you want me to list the technical differences and I'll be happy to get into that.

What I'm most interested in seeing is how Bombardier will bump up our Freedom LFLRV's in the big ol' Gantt chart up on their wall in comparison to Toronto's 2 big orders.  Obviously we need our trains - Toronto not so much, as they have committed to refurbishing a bunch of CLRV/ALRV's due to the delays.  We have no trains to fall back on.  And Crosstown is still at least 5 years away.  So I really hope they'll let us jump the queue, so to speak, so our system can stay on-time.

G:linq (Gold Coast Light Rail) is the most recent similar project to ours (many of the same system partners) but their trains were made at Bombardier's Vienna facility.

We were due to take delivery of our first train in a little over 1 year.  I suspect that Bombardier will send a single unit as soon as possible (early next year) once the tracks up near the OMSF are complete for testing.  Toronto doesn't have any standard gauge track yet to run trains on (Streetcar is broad, Eglinton is Standard but not built yet), so the only other place they could test them out is in Thunder Bay (and by that, I mean pushing it around with a Diesel shunter - they have no powered track there, little more than a small switching yard).  Kingston doesn't have any catenary and is only for ICTS/ALRT (LIM, 3rd rail) and Monorail. So it's very likely that the first track and powered run that a Freedom LFLRV ever takes will be right here in Waterloo region. As a rail fan, I can't tell you how exciting that is.

[numberguy]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bombardie...-1.2373471

Bombardier's plan unit is causing some serious pain.

[ookpik]

The Region responds: Bombardier quality problems won’t derail LRT project 

Regional officials say problems that derailed the quality of Bombardier's Toronto Transit Commission streetcars shouldn't be an issue for local light rail trains. Thomas Schmidt, commissioner of transportation and environmental services, said the region has inspectors ensuring the quality of the trains... Parts are manufactured in Mexico and production of the trains takes place in Thunder Bay. Region of Waterloo staff, consultants and representatives from Crown corporation Metrolinx have undertaken the inspections...

Marc Andre Lefebvre, spokesperson with Bombardier, said those problems have been corrected. "Since there are some parts that are common to both the streetcars and (light rail vehicles) for Waterloo, the good news is everything that we've learned, all of the issues that have arisen with the streetcars, all of the learning will be taken and will be put to the new Waterloo LRV and so those issues will not repeat again," he said...

The first train is expected to be delivered here by fall of 2016 with the remainder delivered by the end of that year. Bhatti said a strike at the Bombardier Thunder Bay plant in 2014 could affect the timeline for trains to be delivered...

Don't worry. Be happy.

[Coke6pk]

While I have complete faith in GrandLinq, should we be concerned that the ION has 4 different logos on different documents they have issued?

[Canard]

1 and 3 are correct. 2 and 4 are scaling mistakes with the layers or something. I'm normally super-anal about stuff like that but I'm sure the trains and stops will have the correct logo.

[Coke6pk]

1 and 3 are correct.  2 and 4 are scaling mistakes with the layers or something.  I'm normally super-anal about stuff like that but I'm sure the trains and stops will have the correct logo.

Oh, I realize they are errors, my point was more to the comment previously about if GrandLinq will be vigilant on finding small defects/imperfections at Bombardier during testing, or going with the quick fix/easy solution.  Using an incorrect image on 2 of your 3 "Advertorials" would be an example of the latter.

[Canard]

I doubt the same people who do graphic designs and pamphlets are the ones who are going to Thunder Bay to sign off the trains.

[dunkalunk]

I doubt the same people who do graphic designs and pamphlets are the ones who are going to Thunder Bay to sign off the trains.

It's not the people that do graphic design/communications that's the issue. It's the higher-ups that rubber stamp something that is incorrect that's the issue. The different logo thing may bleed over into general communications issues that already exist between the different silos of Grandlinq, Rapid Transit, and GRT. It's something we should be keeping an eye on, for sure.

[clasher]

1 and 3 look like web and print versions of the same logo to me. I'm with Canard's opinion of 2 and 4 as well, lots of layers that can get messed easily enough. If these were just pulled off memorandums or press releases that someone had to whip up on short notice I don't think that kind of thing goes through a thorough nitpicking to make sure that the same fonts and logos are used.

[Markster]

Some serious work is about to happen in the Bearinger area:

   

[Canard]

Yeah, IIRC the temporary sign at the entrance to R&T Park said it was to close on the 19th (today).

...sorry, it says that in your document. Was too excited! This will very likely be the first true new tracks.

[Canard]

Just got confirmation that the track placed this weekend at the Bearanger crossing will truly be the first ion tracks placed in the ground!