Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[the_conestoga_guy]

For better or for worse, I think that the city of Kitchener will be building a replacement to the Aud sometime in the future. For the sake of argument, I'm assuming this to be the case. Obviously I think there are more pressing matters for our tax dollars to go towards; I'm just operating in this assumed future scenario.

If we assume that the city will be building a new venue, I think the most important question is "where should it be constructed such that we can provide the greatest economic impact per tax dollar invested?" 

I personally look to cities like Winnipeg and London, and observe the successes/mistakes/lessons from each of them. They constructed similar sized arenas on similar sized plots of land as the Charles St Terminal. London, for example, built a new arena with minimal new parking, and they're just as car-dependent as Kitchener. Plus, they didn't have an LRT stop next door to the site. There are tons of arguments against this kind of development, but I don't think access to parking should be one of them.

I do agree that there will be increased traffic downtown as a result, and that will be disruptive to the downtown residents. But, not to sound too harsh, that's probably a good thing for the downtown businesses? Further investment by the city into active-transportation infrastructure in combination with the LRT will hopefully mitigate the car traffic from nearby residents. The remaining cars will likely be people entering the city core from the suburbs, the same people who have been saying "there's no reason to go downtown after 5pm." These are people who will be visiting downtown who might otherwise never do so, and could now have the opportunity/excuse to shop at the downtown businesses.

London is a good counter example. That being said, London downtown is also utterly gutted in comparison to Kitcheners downtown, I'm not sure it's a model we should aim for.

As for business, I'm not sure it does help businesses. People who go to an arena, might buy food downtown, or they might just go somewhere else, then drive to the arena. This kind of behaviour has been seen before, I know it was studied in LA, but I'm sure it has happened other places.

I'm no economist or planner, but AFAIK the traditional pump up downtown schemes usually fail, and the best way to actually help downtown businesses is to have people LIVE downtown, certainly we are moving that direction, but there is still huge demand for housing.

Instead of asking "where is the best place for an arena", I'd ask what is the best use for that particular site. I think "arena" would be pretty far down the list.

But I suspect you're right, Kitchener probably won't be building a new arena any time soon. Despite how much the city does seem to love these bullshit kinda investments (I'm looking at you The Museum advertising helicopter), it takes a decade to do anything and I don't think they're really even thinking about it right now, so this whole discussion is probably academic.

FWIW though, "selling this plot to the highest bidder for condos" probably isn't top of my list of best uses for the site either, but it is the one I expect will happen.

If you were to frequent the r/LondonOntario subreddit, you'd find no shortage of people who pin the blame on their poor downtown on corporate landowners (see: Farhi) rather than any failures relating to their downtown arena investment. Admittedly, I'm originally from the London area, so I'm more familiar with that area than KW (though I've been here almost ten years!). 

As I mentioned previously, I don't necessarily think that the city should be constructing a new arena, but I do think they will. And since this is going to end up being one of the city's larger financial investments in my lifetime, I guess I'm trying to be a little more politically active and trying to get the most "bang" for my tax dollars. I'm also no economist or planner, but my suspicion is that the site with the most "economic potential" would be somewhere in the DTK area. 

I do 1000% agree that selling off the land to a condo developer would be a sad waste of opportunity. As much as I'm advocating for the arena/event center idea, I've also heard ideas that center around expanding Victoria Park and creating affordable housing that are equally exciting. 

Finally, please don't lump me into the same group as NIMBYs who want a new arena but are against tearing down SFHs. I've been yelled at too much on Nextdoor while voicing support for dense developments in my neighbourhood....