Road design, transportation and walkability

[jeffster]

Dan, nowhere in this world has great transit. It just doesn't happen. It can be a good choice for some, but for most, it just isn't. Many people value their time. And I'll give you an example:

I take care of my 80 year old mom. She needed to go in today for a shot. I was finished work at 4 -- I was able to get her, take her to the doctors office which was on the other side of the city (they used to be closer, but they moved), afterward, she also needed to run an errand, then she got some food. I was able to do all this in about 70 minutes. Now, had I had to use transit, I would have had to leave work 3 hours early, this would get me home within 90 minutes, and 2 hours to get to her doctors office. We'll have to skip the errand and getting food, and another 2 hours to get back home. That's 5.5 hours dedicated to getting her to the doctors office and back home. Whether or not she could have even did all the walking (about 2 km to the closest bus stop, due to water main work, otherwise, 750 meters, but this is summer construction and another 750 meters from the bus stop to her doctors office) is another factor.

No matter how much money we put into transit, it will never replace private transportation as a practical alternative.

I don't disagree that we should be building along the corridors, and we're doing that. But to suggest we toll cars and give out free transit is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. I get it. You hate cars but you love transit. It works well for you. That's great. Good for you. I am happy for you. But for the other 85% of us, it just doesn't work. Not all of us have the time to wait around for transit to get us from point A to point B.

As for The Netherlands, that's good they can do what they do. But they're a different country. They can have robust transit from city to city because it's a small country, only 42,000 km2 - compare this to Southern Ontario, 140,000 km2. Weather wise it's favourable for them to bike year round. While not warm in the winter, it does stay above freezing, unlike here, where are morning lows mid December to mid March is typically between -8 and - 20.

And as I pointed out before, when stuff like strikes and what's going on with covid-19, that makes mass transit a poor choice for many. I won't risk the health of elderly or immune compromised friends and family.

I'll also mention that once things return to 'normal' and my work hours are no longer 8-4, M-F, transit is also 100% useless to me, and many that I know. KWC and G are so tiny, they'll never spend the funds to run transit 24/7 to make us usable for everyone. This highway 7 announcement is great. You may not like it, but those that use it are happy.

I honestly don't know why we cannot get past this sticking point.  Why do you believe that the lack of transit HERE means that nowhere has good transit, and for that matter, that good transit cannot exist?

You even go on to say "well we're not the Netherlands"...almost contradicting your earlier statement. Perhaps you know, and also know that I know, that the Netherlands does indeed have transit that is that good, even if we don't have it here.

And guess what else isn't the Netherlands?  The Netherlands circa 1975.  They were on the same path as us, building car dependent suburbs. They changed course, they built transit and cycling instead, and now cycling combined with transit is faster for most trips in cities. We could do the same thing, it is a choice. There is nothing inherent about the Netherlands that we cannot do here. Their climate is not as nice as you believe, their country is not as flat as you believe, the only meaningful difference is the decisions their leadership has made. As for transit vs. cars...there are thousands of cities on Earth where transit is used more than cars...there are numerous reasons for this, not all of them because transit (plus biking or walking) is better than driving as it is in the Netherlands, but in most cases it is because transit is good.

I'm not suggesting we will get there tomorrow, but we will never get there if we keep making the decisions we have made, instead of the ones they have made.

And just in case you think, well, they're a special case, they are not, other places have followed their lead and successfully build effective transit and cycling infrastructure. Nobody is as far along as they are, but plenty are moving in that direction, even in North America.

How am I “almost” contradicting myself when I say ‘we’re not the Netherlands’? You used it as an example for what Canada could do, despite HUGE differences between the two countries. We can blissfully ignore those differences.

Yet, despite everything that the Netherlands did, and despite higher tax rates for cars (when you purchase, when you buy gas), they still have more than 1 car per household. They also have way more motorways (highways), than say Southern Ontario (I use southern Ontario as an example — 1) close to the same population, 2) only 3 times larger than the Netherlands, as comparing to Canada would be too difficult). And they have once of the most dense roadways in Europe, and they continue to upgrade roads. Perhaps The Netherlands wasn’t a great example to use.

I have no issue with governments spending money on transit and cycling. I think they should. But they also have to take care of roads as well, and this sometimes means building or widening certain roads because it’s needed.

Something you keep refusing to address though, are these two things: transit cannot be used by the majority of people. Cycling is limited in Canada to about 7 or 8 months. Again, I have no issue with infrastructure spending on these things — but you need to realize that it’s only two components of our transportation system, and acknowledge its limitations, no matter how much we spend.

No acknowledgment of transit disruptions either (either the odd strike or pestilence).

You lose points when you say things like “start tolling cars” and “make transit free” as if somehow punishing people by stealing their time, those that can’t afford to live in some sort of transit corridor, those with elderly families, or those with health issues, is an answer, because it is not. And no country has done that.

Stop hating the car, and stop hating car drivers. We got to where we are, and indeed, and developed nation has, by a combination of great transportation infrastructure, including private vehicles.