236 Victoria St N | 40 & 35 fl | Proposed

[jeremyroman]

Grand River Rocks has now put out a Facebook video pushing back against "another luxury condo buliding built by Toronto developers".

[bravado]

Grand River Rocks has now put out a Facebook video pushing back against "another luxury condo buliding built by Toronto developers".

I can’t blame them but they’re 100% wrong.

[westwardloo]

This is starting to ugly. All sorts of misinformation being spread throughout the community on this one. Obviously GRR and the property owner have not communicated effectively with each other. There is no way this proposal starts demolition for another 5-10 years. Which is plenty of time for GRR to source an alternative location. It sucks for them to move twice in a decade, but if they wanted to control what is done with the property they should buy a location. 

If I were the developer and was serious about this project moving forward I would consider eating the costs now and terminate the lease with GRR.  I have a feeling like the City will side with the NIMBY's and the climbing community on this one because of how much of a fuss they are making.  The good thing for GRR is I don't think the developer is serious about the project and is just looking for a rezone and flip.

[hellocharliewest]

Grand River Rocks has now put out a Facebook video pushing back against "another luxury condo buliding built by Toronto developers".

The misinformation in the comments are off the charts! There’s a comment with 7 likes at this time claiming that “luxury” condos drive rent prices up 😭

[ac3r]

I have a feeling like the City will side with the NIMBY's and the climbing community on this one because of how much of a fuss they are making.  The good thing for GRR is I don't think the developer is serious about the project and is just looking for a rezone and flip.

I disagree. I seriously doubt they'll side with the NIMBY over something irrelevant like upset indoor climbers, irregardless of whether or not the developer plans to actually build this. Clearly Grand River Rocks has no clue what they're doing in terms of business operation. They had a cheap lease over on Borden Ave and it worked for them short term, but since the region is growing they lost it as Vive Development saw that this is a prime piece of land beside a transit station. So what does GRR do? The exact same thing...lol. They find a super cheap place to set up their business but somehow didn't have the smarts to consider that maybe this former Goodlife location might also get redeveloped, especially because it sat vacant for years.

The city is going to run the numbers on this one as they do with other developments these days. The long term macro economic benefits that 1000+ new homes and over 1000 square meters of commercial space directly in the core will provide much, much, much greater benefit to the city and region than some climbing gym run by people that obviously aren't that good at running a business. Council can make some really goofy decisions at times but they have a lot of people working with the city that are able to look at the objective facts and suggest the best decision for them to make. Again yeah they make some bad choices, but our planners and most of council aren't watching Facebook videos and browsing comment sections then making decisions based off nonsense like that.

I think it will get approved (albeit with some delay), GRR will sulk but accept it and then hopefully not go do the same thing again by moving into somewhere that is inevitably going to get redeveloped. I can't feel bad for them because they're obviously not making good choices.

[ZEBuilder]

Staff are recommending approval at Monday's Planning and Strategic Initiatives meeting.

Concerns from the public were generally about height/density, shadows, and then the GRR situation.

For the GRR situation this is what staff has to say: 

"the existing land use designation and zoning permits a fitness centre and the proposed land use designation and zoning will continue to permit a fitness centre. Staff understand that Grand River Rocks has recently relocated from 50 Borden Avenue South (which is also subject to a development application) and understand the concern of the business operator and members. The owner of the subject lands has not disclosed a timeline for reconstruction and staff understand that they have communicated to the current tenants that they do not plan on ending the current 5 year lease early, regardless of the outcome of any decision on these applications. Staff understand that Grand River Rocks has a five year lease for the former LA Fitness building. No new commercial tenants or leases have been identified at this time for the mixed used development. The Official Plan Amendment and Zoning By-law Amendment applications propose new residential permissions. All matters regarding the current commercial lease are between the Owner and Grand River Rocks. Lease arrangements are outside of the jurisdiction of the City of Kitchener. The proposed land use designation and zoning would continue to permit a fitness centre as a permitted use and would not impact current operations or lease arrangements."

For height/density:

"The City of Kitchener’s Urban Growth Centre and PMTSA’s consists of numerous high-rises that are built or approved to be built ranging from 10 storeys to 50 storeys. Comparable high-rise buildings in height that are built, under construction or proposed include the following developments: 
DTK (60 Frederick St) - 39 Storeys (built) 
Charlie West (60 Charles St W) - 31 Storeys (built) 
20 Queen Street - 34 Storeys (planned) 
Station Park (607 King St W), 18 (built), 28 (built), 36 (under construction), 40 and 50 storeys (planned) 
417 King Street West – 55 Storeys (planned, construction starting in 2024) 
10 Duke Street – 45 Storeys (final site plan approval issued, construction starting in 2024) 
30 Francis Street – 45 Storeys (under construction) 
88 Queen Street – 45 Storeys (planned) 50 Borden – 51 and 57 Storeys (under review)"

[westwardloo]

Staff are recommending approval at Monday's Planning and Strategic Initiatives meeting.

Concerns from the public were generally about height/density, shadows, and then the GRR situation.

For the GRR situation this is what staff has to say: 

"the existing land use designation and zoning permits a fitness centre and the proposed land use designation and zoning will continue to permit a fitness centre. Staff understand that Grand River Rocks has recently relocated from 50 Borden Avenue South (which is also subject to a development application) and understand the concern of the business operator and members. The owner of the subject lands has not disclosed a timeline for reconstruction and staff understand that they have communicated to the current tenants that they do not plan on ending the current 5 year lease early, regardless of the outcome of any decision on these applications. Staff understand that Grand River Rocks has a five year lease for the former LA Fitness building. No new commercial tenants or leases have been identified at this time for the mixed used development. The Official Plan Amendment and Zoning By-law Amendment applications propose new residential permissions. All matters regarding the current commercial lease are between the Owner and Grand River Rocks. Lease arrangements are outside of the jurisdiction of the City of Kitchener. The proposed land use designation and zoning would continue to permit a fitness centre as a permitted use and would not impact current operations or lease arrangements."

For height/density:

"The City of Kitchener’s Urban Growth Centre and PMTSA’s consists of numerous high-rises that are built or approved to be built ranging from 10 storeys to 50 storeys. Comparable high-rise buildings in height that are built, under construction or proposed include the following developments: 
DTK (60 Frederick St) - 39 Storeys (built) 
Charlie West (60 Charles St W) - 31 Storeys (built) 
20 Queen Street - 34 Storeys (planned) 
Station Park (607 King St W), 18 (built), 28 (built), 36 (under construction), 40 and 50 storeys (planned) 
417 King Street West – 55 Storeys (planned, construction starting in 2024) 
10 Duke Street – 45 Storeys (final site plan approval issued, construction starting in 2024) 
30 Francis Street – 45 Storeys (under construction) 
88 Queen Street – 45 Storeys (planned) 50 Borden – 51 and 57 Storeys (under review)"

I will be pleasantly surprised if both 10 Duke and 417 King start construction this year. Those 2 towers are going to look really good compared to DTK. The kitchener skyline is going to look drastically different in 5 years. I wish we could attract "AAA" office in the downtown, but the City of Waterloo has done their best to make sure that only suburban office parks are built in the Region.

[ac3r]

They built a brand new office across from the LCBO downtown and only one tenant moved in over the course of a year (not including the bank). It's more a problem of nobody wanting to move in.

[Joedelay Highhoe]

They built a brand new office across from the LCBO downtown and only one tenant moved in over the course of a year (not including the bank). It's more a problem of nobody wanting to move in.

There's a decent thai restaurant on the ground floor as well

[Rainrider22]

I haven't tried it yet. Is it good ?

[KevinL]

I can't imagine the work-from-home trend is helping; they can't get tenants for existing office space, I can't see new space being in any big degree of demand.

[ac3r]

Indeed.. At least not in a city like ours. Even in a major city like Toronto, working from home has opened up so much space that anyone looking can just move into an existing building.

[westwardloo]

They built a brand new office across from the LCBO downtown and only one tenant moved in over the course of a year (not including the bank). It's more a problem of nobody wanting to move in.

My understanding is that a law firm is a major tenant in that building and is taking up a large chunk of the space. But I get your point. I think the shoebox is still looking for tenants as well.  KW has not done a great job at recruiting office workers into the their Downtowns.  Now with the "shift" to remote office I don't see the DTK office space growing anytime soon. Why would a company move into a space in DTK with limited parking when Waterloo has built multiple business parks at the edge of town "Rim Park, David Johnson Research Park & the boardwalk" with ample parking. The Region has built lots of new office space in the last two-decades, but only a limited amount has been in the downtown. Thankfully Google choose to set up shop in the DTK.

[tomh009]

I haven't tried it yet. Is it good ?

Soi Thafoon is quite good--it's kind of cross between fast casual and Thai street food.

[Joedelay Highhoe]

I haven't tried it yet. Is it good ?

I think it's pretty good. I'm a fan of the red/green curry. Friend of mine tried thai food for the first time and she liked the pad thai with tofu.